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Originally Posted by Chip's Mom
PLEASE don't be mad at me people but Michael - I just have to say it - I don't believe in evolution. My personal opinion is that corgis are getting bigger because some breeders are breeding outside of the standard. the AKC originally acknowledged the cardigans and the pembrokes as one breed, they probably were bred and registered. That may be why some are larger than others.
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Hang on guys - The definition of evolution applicable here is: "A gradual process of change or development." This happens with us, our dogs and every living being.
Corgis were never recognized as a single breed by AKC, they have always been two separate breeds in the US. In the earliest days the Kennel Club (the UK's version of AKC) did consider them one breed, but that was for a brief time period.
While the rumours run rampant and speculation is that the dogs in the show ring are getting ever slightly larger and there's a common one going around about a 50 LB Cardigan that wins - unless one weighs and measures, I wouldn't be so sure. There are so many things which factor into what our eyes perceive as size and often if the numbers were actually in front of us, I think there would be quite a few surprises. Overall size and balance is made up of a number of things: angulation - a corgi with straighter shoulder angulation is going to look taller than one with a correct layback. HOWEVER, the one with the better layback may in fact be taller than the one with straighter shoulders. How do I know this to be true? I measured a number of dogs I've had come through here for height and length. I know how to look and feel for shoulder angles. Some of my "brutes" of boys have actually come in shorter in length and height than some of the daintier looking girls. The amount of bone is another deceiver in size. A corgi with a ton of bone is going to look a lot bigger than one lighter in bone, not necessarily so, just looks that way. Even the amount and type of coat a corgi has influences the perception of size. A plush coat will make a corgi look much larger than one with a close coat even if the two dogs are identical in size. Shoot, fluffies often look huge compared to their regular coated siblings, not necessarily so. These are the kind of things one really needs to get their hands on actual dogs and go over them and then make calls.
The major change in size in the corgi standards since they were first written has to do mainly with weight. Weights have increased, the height has not. The earliest standards call for height for both breeds between 10 and 12 inches. In the early days of corgi recognition World War I was happening. During World War II the blue merle color in Cardigans was almost lost. Think about which gets priority on food sources, the soldiers? children? or dogs? Corgis are, at least weight wise, larger today due to better nutrition. We live longer than our grandparents due to better health care for example.
I was going to start another thread called "chicken or the egg" in regards to some of the things in the average size thread. Are show breeders breeding bigger corgis because judges are rewarding them with wins or are judges only rewarding bigger corgis because that is what breeders are bringing them in the show ring? There is really no reason to breed to improve the breed. The breed itself is just fine. There is a blueprint for a perfect specimen all spelled out and described. What breeders should be doing is breeding to the standard in everything it describes. There are no perfect breed specimens, so what a breeder is really trying to do is improve the dogs in front of them, the sire and the dam, in the next generation. I'm not sure where the idea came that I was giddy that Taylor was oversized in height. What I would look at from a breeder's perspective IF he were mine is should I breed a dog this size? The answer is MAYBE. And here is where an element of the art of breeding comes into play. He's a beautiful dog, he comes from great lines, his siblings and relatives are all very nice. Is that reason enough for me to use him as a stud? NO. It has to go deeper than that. What virtues and qualities does he have that are to die for? What is he going to do and contribute to my girl that I can't do without in my quest for the brass ring of producing a "perfect" corgi? IF he has "it," then yes I would use him. There are at least two schools of thought on correcting a fault. The first is one should breed to the most perfect dog they can find for the fault they wish to correct. The second is to breed to the most extreme example of correctness one can find. As an example of the latter, IF I want more size in my dogs, then I breed to oversized dogs. But Bonnie is right about the random breeders, those who breed just because someone has an intact dog to breed to - without paying attention to faults, then the next generation is only going to come out with those faults more firmly entrenched. That's called setting a trait and it works in reverse with correct qualities as well.
I do NOT believe there are as many 13 inch tall corgis on this list as was reported. Measuring for height is tricky and can only be accurately done with a wicket, measuring tapes aren't going to cut it for accuracy. Corgis are not excused from the show ring for height and weight "infractions" because these are not disqualifying faults in either breed. (In Pembrokes there are NO disqualifying faults.) They are supposed to be severely faulted, but it is doubtful that a judge will ever call for a wicket in the corgi rings. But I have news for Michael, in the US 10" corgis, even males are highly prized and sought after among serious agility competitors. They jump the lower heights and the breeds in the 8 inch jump division are not as competitively fast as many found in the 10 or 12 inch divisions. Thus they can get faster times, set course records and win a lot more High in Trials.
Eri's comments about "runts" is not really accurate either. I've held puppies with birth weights of nearly a pound that grew into being the smallest in the litter, kind of like a 10 pound human baby only growing up to be 5 feet tall, while a preemie grows to be over 6 feet.
The key word to remember when thinking of corgis is MODERATION! Read through both standards and see how often that word appears. One thing that Bonnie picked up on in the other thread was "throw backs." What needs to be kept in mind whenever a breeding takes place is that Mother Nature is always trying to revert back to the original corgis of days gone by. Or as a world reknown breeder judge (who has judged the NZKC specialty show) said, Mother Nature always tries to go back to the "ugliest common denominator." As for the corgi world not going into reverse mode and producing smaller end of the standard corgis - don't be so sure. Favored styles tend to go in phases. I've been around long enough to see several come and go.
Debbie