Need advise on biting....

[Dillydoodle]

I agree with Debbie that this puppy behavior is due to not being corrected and not being a strong alpha - If you do not like a behavior you must correct it every single time.
Dillon is also not a nipper and not a barker, he will bark at the appropriate times ( doorbell, daddy's home, someone at the door, and to alert me in what he considers an emergency - like when my elderly cat throws up, he barks to get me to come check on her) and he is also a low energy corgi...he likes his walks but is content inside to nap and quietly chew on his bone or one of his toys. I started training him from day one to let him know what is acceptable in our house and what was not, and he learned very quickly. It took a few firm no's and redirection to play with something appropriate.

Emilie

[glencorgi]

Another thought -- are you feeding Milo puppy food? Check the percentage of protein in the formula. IF it is 28% or higher, then you might wish to consider switching him to regular food or perhaps a large breed puppy formula with a lower protein percentage. High protein levels have been found to trigger more aggressive type tendencies in some dogs.

Debbie

[MissGambler'sMommy]

Glencorgi: That is such a great tip, about checking the protein level in food. I had never thought of that, and it sounds like something that a vet should have mentioned. And to ask a question about that, Miss Gambler LOVES red meat, as does my husband, so we cook red meat a lot and Miss Gambler always gets some. I have thought that this was a good thing, but have we been giving her way too much protein, and in turn, affecting her mood and behavoir? If your answer is, "Yes", then this would explain so much and is something we will correct immediately. I also hope that every Corgi puppy owner reads your post about this because it could help them. We have been giving Miss Gambler a lot of meat since she was a baby thinking that it was good for her. This site is going to add many years to Miss Gambler's life. Thank you!

[Michael Romanos]

Bonnie - I didn't know that people kept a choke chain on their dogs when unleashed. I suppose there is always someone out there.............
I don't agree with your anti tug of war stance. If the dog is unacceptably agressive (beyond normal agression) and is one of the fighting-type breeds of dogs, then there might be a case for not playing 'war' games, but come-on, a grabbing, nipping little Corgi puppy is not going to turn into a vicious flesh tearing dog because he/she is subject to playing with toys and having a wrestle etc with their owner.

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Bonnie - I didn't know that people kept a choke chain on their dogs when unleashed. I suppose there is always someone out there.............
I don't agree with your anti tug of war stance. If the dog is unacceptably agressive (beyond normal agression) and is one of the fighting-type breeds of dogs, then there might be a case for not playing 'war' games, but come-on, a grabbing, nipping little Corgi puppy is not going to turn into a vicious flesh tearing dog because he/she is subject to playing with toys and having a wrestle etc with their owner.

Michael,

I think the point that Bonnie was trying to make is that some people have never used a choke chain collar on their dogs and may not realize that this is something they should take off when the dog is unleashed and unsupervised.

You advised KKaffrine to use one on her 4 month old puppy, but maybe she is not aquainted with how to put them on correctly(I would be one of those people, since I myself have never used one.)

And sorry Michael, but I side with Bonnie on the Tug of War games - I am not in favor of them - now I have read various sites in regards to this, and I have seen opinions on both sides, but more against it. There are many more ways that KKaffrine can help her dog to expend energy without doing the tug of war, such as throwing a ball/toy and teaching her dog to retrieve it.

http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/behavior.html

Here's a link with lots of info for anyone interested.

[Michael Romanos]

Linda - you buy a choke chain from a pet shop -ask the store assistant how to use it- once you know how it is very difficult to forget the simple process. When my eldest son was two or three he could attach a choker to a leash and successfully put it on the Corgi. The only point to remember that it depends which way you place the chain loop on the dog whether it is just a chain or actually acts as a chocker.

Fetching is a completely different game to tug of war with a toy and is not clearly relevant to the problem of a dog wanting to grab something at close range to a human that resembles material for pulling.

[Dillydoodle]

I am torn about the tug of war games. Here is my take, I think if you already have a very aggressive or DOMINANT corgi you would be best NOT to play tug games, epecially if you can't guarantee that you will win every time. People with well behaved, calm, non nippy, non aggressive, non dominant corgis, I think are fine to play those games as long as the person is the one who initiates the game, has firm rules for play, wins EVERY single time and choses when to end the game. Unfortunately, based on much i have seen both at school, out in the general public, here on this forum (not everyone, and it is not meant as a slam, just an observation) consistency is lacking...and the minute you give in and let the dog call the shots, you have lost more than a small game of tug of war...again, this is just my opinion.

As for choke chains, I dont particularly care for them because most people do not use them correctly..not just the putting them on, but the placement on the neck, the proper amount of "snap" used etc...more harm can be done using a choke chain by people who don't know how to use them properly. I use the martingale collar, it is harder to use that incorrectly than a choke chain in my opinion. I like the idea of taking the dog to training classes as that helps teach the owner how to teach the dog which i think is most important.

Emilie

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Linda - you buy a choke chain from a pet shop -ask the store assistant how to use it- once you know how it is very difficult to forget the simple process. When my eldest son was two or three he could attach a choker to a leash and successfully put it on the Corgi. The only point to remember that it depends which way you place the chain loop on the dog whether it is just a chain or actually acts as a chocker.

Fetching is a completely different game to tug of war with a toy and is not clearly relevant to the problem of a dog wanting to grab something at close range to a human that resembles material for pulling.

I know fetching is a completely different game, I merely mentioned it as a way to get her dog interested in something else(rather than biting her pants and hands) and as a way to get rid of pent up energy.

And as far as the choke chain, Did you ever think that someone might buy one and not ask the assistant. You should have put that tidbit of simple information in your first post.

[Chip's Mom]

Last night in Maybelle's basic obedience class, a person had their choke collar on wrong and the instructor showed everyone the proper way to put it on fir the second time and reinforced the issue of taking it off after training exercises. Sorry Michael but people leave them on all the time and dogs do strangle themselves. Also, people tend to forget with a one time quick lesson which way the store assistant said to put it on and also do not realize that a choke collar stops the air flow. As far as the tug of war games, my opinion is with all of the negative articles on tug of war games - why risk it when there are so many other games to play with your pup. These are just my opinions and everyone knows their own dog and what they can and cannot do. As far as the fetch game, I think that is a great way to expel energy and have one on one time with your dog. It also teaches them to come to you.

[tandemgal]

once in awhile I play tug with The Girls - I always win now. When Emma was a young girl I would let her win - not knowing that it reinforced her feeling that she was top dog... may be why she is so hard headed still - guess I will need to stop blaming Hubby's gene pool LOL

Now The Girls are playing Tug together. One will pick up Lambie Pie and the other grabs hold and off they go thru the house till one wins. Lately it seems Chloe always wins... this A.M. Hubby was playing with a bear with Emma and Chloe came up, stole the bear and off The Girls went for world domination again!

[Chip's Mom]

That sounds so cute - I can just picture that. So glad Emma is back to her young self.

[Fluffypants]

I play tug with Jackie, but I initiate it. I will hold out the rope and say "Take It", and a tug ensues. I let it go on for a minute or two, then I say "Drop It", and I make her do a sit or a down for a minute or so to calm down, and we start over again at "Take It". Thsi way, no one gets too revved up, and we can both remember who calls the shots.

I agree about the choke chain. Sure, it SHOULD be obvious that you need to ask someone how to use it correctly. But we are talking about HUMAN BEINGS here. It's not completely out of line to share what should be obvious . . . because I bet that there's at least one person who would read it and say "Really? I didn't know that!" And if we can help even one corgi owner (and by association, one corgi) then it's worth it.

~~ stepping down off my soapbox now ~~

[glencorgi]

Emilie is spot on with her observations and comments. With the behaviors this Milo is exhibiting and practicing, tug of war is NOT a game for him. Running after a thrown ball or stick or walks as Linda mentioned is a much better method for burning off his energy.

I guess I better prepare Michael to be horrified once again. First, there have been some municipalities that tried to pass legislation to have choke chains illegal as training aids. (I can't make this stuff up, and it does go to show public perception of them.) Second, the odds of walking into any pet shop/supply store and getting a store clerk who may actually know how to demonstrate the proper use of one - pretty slim. The large chain stores like PetsMart and Petco, the employees there probably like animals, doesn't mean they know beans about them or what they are selling. My nephew worked as a groomer at PetsMart and his experience there could give some pretty eye-opening revelations as to the competency of the training. Shoot, we have to look no further than Dewey's experience with her friend (Aaron was it?) and his "knowledge" of breeders or breeding. Even in the small scale specialty stores where there is a little more depth of knowledge and experience, not two weeks ago my sister and I had to explain to another customer how the martingale collars work - the store clerk didn't know and she's been with the store a very long time.

Putting on choke collars is not rocket science and when done right and used correctly, they can be a very effective training tool. But even now, after all these years and using them on a regular basis, I'll still catch myself putting them on backwards, but I do realize they are on backwards - which is an important detail (and I don't feel so bad when I see professional handlers make the same mistake). Another little detail someone needs to ask about besides the proper use, is the correct size.

The debate whether to leave a collar on or not is an ongoing one and choke collars are ones that should not be left on. Collars for ID purposes, well most of them harbor the potential to get caught on something. That has to be a personal choice and decision. There are many people who do attach the ID tags and info to a choke collar and leave them on.

Debbie

[MissGambler'sMommy]

I am no expert, but I do have a healthy three year old Corgi that I spend an extreme amount of time with (24-7), and I know that when she was a puppy we had a number of tug toys, the rope ones, etc... and she loved these, then she started tearing up every item that she decided to. Her toys were encouraging and reinforcing that it was ok to do this. She tore up pillows, blankets, sheets, a bedspread, numerous towels, the list is too numerous, before we put a stop to all tugging and pulling. Once we stopped with the toys, she stopped teating up things. Coincidence? I think not.

As for the choke chain part of this thread: I do not even ask opinions at Petco or Petsmart, too many stupid and incorrect answers. I have found that questions asked at the boutiques get better and more detailed answers. They are usually privately owned, and by a big-time pet lover. But the absolute best answers will come from your vet(you would not go to him if you did not trust his opinion, right?) and breeders THAT YOU TRUST.

[Chip's Mom]

Debbie:

Can you explain the martingale collar theory, pros and cons, success in training, etc I have never seen one other than a catalog but I have heard them mentioned here quite abit and wonder the advantages, etc and if I should get one for my lil Chiparoo.