Need advise on biting....

[kkaffrine]

Over the last couple of weeks my 15 week old Pem girl has staring biting, nipping and barking. It seems to happen when she is tired or bored with her toys and chew things. I tell her NO and some times will have to hold her down to calm her which only lasts a few seconds. It is as if she knows that this is wrong and not acceptable behavior. I have tried just walking away and ignoring her but she will continue. This usually lasts for about 15 minutes.This has become a daily thing with her. I feel like she has turned this into a game. Like I said, she seems to do it more when she has been playing for a long period of time as if she is getting tired and irritable, like a baby fighting sleep. I have read some of the past postings but need more advise. I know part of it is the puppy and that if there were other dogs around that this is how she would be playing with them. Will this phase out as she gets older? Has any one else had this to work through? Any advise will be helpful!!!


Katherine


PS. Hopefully i will get some pictures posted soon!!

[tandemgal]

When Chloe was that age I would either say OUCH and then ignore her for a few Minutes. Or we would say NO BITE and redirect her with a toy to chew on. It depended on the circumstance of the bite. At this stage she is testing her limits and it's the natural way for puppies play with other puppies. I'm sure it is a game for her.

Don't use your hands as chew toys. Always praise her when she does what you want. When she is barking try saying HUSH - I don't know if it's the sound or what but it seems to work with Chloe.

We have had several good threads in the forum on puppy bites. I know there is a lot of good info there that I haven't thought to put here so you might check there too.

[Michael Romanos]

Corgis want to play with YOU rather than toys. A lot of Corgis get bored with their toys - one reason why some Corgi owners keep buying more toys - but they never tire of playing with the ones they love and trust or at least are bonded with.
The barking is just your Pem edging you on - come on, she is saying, lets have fun. When she bites or nips what are these acts. I would assume they are playful yet maybe a little angry biting and nipping and not in any way vicious. Most new owners when they talk about their Corgi biting - the dog is merely grabbing their hand to guide the hand towards them so that the hand can begin to play or scratch or stroke or tickle or perform some other useful contact activity. But never hit her. And I tend to think that your holding her down might be much less than the ideal or even be remotely productive.
If you have played with her already and her talking and other actions have become incessant - I would pick her up gently and place her in a quiet room - eg the bathroom - for 10 minutes and at the end if she has been quiet, I would open the door and give her some positive praising and a little treat. Keep doing this when she goes beyond reasonable vocal behaviour and other acts and after a week or so, it should have some effect.
There are other ways - mainly through praise and treats to stop unwanted behaviour - but digest the above first, and we can elaborate on other methods if necessary.

[Milo]

My now 4 month old pup Milo, have progresses from play bites/nipping to ripping sleeves, pants and almost drew blood. I must have done something wrong?? I tried the "ouch" and time-out technique, but that didn't seems to deter him.

His bad behaviour almost always started in the afternoon and during the time I take him out to the backyard (to relieve himself). For the past week, after he was done, he would take one look at me and jump for my pants and chomp as hard as he could. Any attempt to stop him (either by keeping still, holding him down or redirecting him) was rewarded by bite marks and torn sleeves.

By then I would run back to the house (with him chasing and trying to bite me) and closes the screen door. Normally it would take 3 tries and time-out to cool him down. Then when I allow him to enter the house, he would return to his sweet self. It's frustrating... any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Btw, is there any correlation to his somewhat aggressive play with other pups and his over excited reaction towards strangers? with this burst of violent behaviour?

[MissGambler'sMommy]

Milo: If your puppy is playing aggressively with other dogs then you will be paying for it. It sounds as if he sees you as just another puppy to play with, he sees no distinction. Curb his aggressive behavior with other dogs, and I'll bet you will also be curbing his aggressive play with you. I have my own personality problems with Miss Gambler. She is the sweetest, most well behaved, well traveled, dog ever, but only with my husband and I. She is not the best socialized dog. And she wants absolutely nothing to do with any other dog, period. I realized a long time ago that my husband and I create a lot of the problems that she has and that it is up to us to correct them, they will not, they see themselves acting normal.

Also: I think that there has been some really good advice in this thread already, and look forward to reading more, but TANDGMGAL wrote two great tid-bits. NEVER use your hands as chew toys when they are puppies. I did this, against my husband's repeated warnings, but my knuckles just seemed to really make her teeth feel good when she was really small. Now, she thinks nothing about biting and chewing my hand, and only my hand. My husband can put his up to her mouth and she would not dare bite. Me, she remembers fondly from childhood. Second: redirecting is important, they live in the moment, so it is so easy to change their attention to something else. Hope all this helps, keep us posted.

[Michael Romanos]

Put Milo on a leash with a chocker chain - a very lightweight and small chain- for any outings and when he gets into this grabbing hold of clothes caper, jerk the chocker to let him know two things - you are boss and look guy, this is not on - and at the same time as you jerk the leash, call out a firm NO or NO BITING. Don't let him run loose like you have been doing until he can control his grabbing of your clothes. Thsi is what I would also do, though others here may disagree: I would get Milo a couple of real good quality ropey toys just for tugs of war and grabbing and chewing. So when he grabs things eg materials, clothes he is not suppose to, offer him the alternative that he is allowed complete freedom with and play with him with the rope toy.

[tandemgal]

It could be too that Baby Milo just wants more play/walk time. At 4 months they are a ball of energy. Would you be in an area you could take him for a nice 15/30 minute walk during the afternoon? This way you can walk off his extra energy, he gets to see all the sights in his neighborhood and will more than likely settle down for a nice nap when you get home.

[sweetlychee]

Oooh, lots of corgis named Milo. But my Milo is a big 9 month old now...almost 10 months old.

Advice: Corgis are natural nippers and barkers. But, you have to understand what they are barking you at. Corgis are very smart and they do tend to get bored of playing the same toys and routine. They really crave for someone to play with. My Milo still does that. So when you have some time, set aside even 30 minutes to play with them and exhaust them out.

Milo loves his toys but he also loves to play with us. Some games he enjoys with us: #1 - Tugging the rope and pulling it. He's very determined. #2 - Pretending to chase his him. He looks back once he knows we stop chasing him. It gives him a good exercise rush.

Do whatever games feel right and fits your corgi. A little bit goes a long way. Eventually the nipping and barking will go away. Trust me, they are barking to tell you they want to play - not out of being mean.

Good luck.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Milo

My now 4 month old pup Milo, have progresses from play bites/nipping to ripping sleeves, pants and almost drew blood. I must have done something wrong?? I tried the "ouch" and time-out technique, but that didn't seems to deter him.

How old was Milo when you brought him home and have you checked in with his breeder for advice? I don't think you've done anything wrong, more likely it is what you haven't done ... take charge and be the alpha leader. It isn't too late, you aren't a failure or a bad owner, just fallen into what many of do with puppies. Some puppies from the beginning need firm rules, structure and discipline and a stronger hand than others do. Milo sounds like he's one of those and needs a figurative knot jerked into his little bunny bum. Emplementing Nothing In Life is Free (NILIF) training with him now would be a very good idea.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm
http://www.petresources.net/dogs/train/nilif.html
http://dogplay.com/Behavior/behavior.html
http://www.buckbasset.com/Training.htm
(The above site has some good resources on a wide variety of topics covered lately - general fears, noise phobia)
Puppy Chewing/Bite Inhibition by Lyn Richards
http://www.doglogic.com/obedienc.htm#biteinhib
Ending Destructive Chewing* by Scottee Meade
http://www.doglogic.com/apdtfaqs.htm#EndingDestructive
Chewing and Biting
http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/Care/Dogs/003/04.htm
Dogs Must Be Taught Not To Bite
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite3.html
Dog and Puppy Biting, Mouthing And Teething
http://www.perfectpaws.com/bite.html

While play biting is a given part of puppyhood, it is never an okay behavior and humans should never be chew toys.

His bad behaviour almost always started in the afternoon and during the time I take him out to the backyard (to relieve himself). For the past week, after he was done, he would take one look at me and jump for my pants and chomp as hard as he could. Any attempt to stop him (either by keeping still, holding him down or redirecting him) was rewarded by bite marks and torn sleeves.

Milo has created a game, set the rules and is controlling all play. He's in charge. I don't think a metal choker/chocker collar is necessarily in order, a martingale style collar, nylon choke could be used in the same fashion and used for the same type correction Michael is recommending. The same message could also be sent with a regular flat buckle collar and a leash. When you let him out for his afternoon potty session, attach his leash to his collar and just let him go about his business dragging the leash. When he finishes and gives you the look that it is "game" time, step on the leash. This will give *YOU* control of the situation; pick up the leash and bring him in. Other things you can do are - get a pair of heavy weight garden/work gloves (if you are concerned about your hands getting chewed on), pick him up when he comes in for the attack (your foot on the leash will prevent him from playing catch me if you can), and flip him over on his back like cradling a baby. He'll most likely squiggle and squirm and fight, but hold him firmly until he settles down (and you can use "settle" as a command here). When he calms down, give him a nice tummy rub and tell him good boy. Three things this does - one, establishes you in a higher dominance position, secondly, every corgi should enjoy a nice tummy rub and third, when vet visits are necessary, it makes him more accepting of exams and makes things less stressful all way around.

By then I would run back to the house (with him chasing and trying to bite me) and closes the screen door. Normally it would take 3 tries and time-out to cool him down. Then when I allow him to enter the house, he would return to his sweet self. It's frustrating... any advise would be greatly appreciated.

As I said, Milo's set the rules and is in charge of this game. NEVER run away from him in situations like this. IF you have to walk away, do so ignoring him and eyes ahead, back straight. Bratty puppies acting like jerks don't get attention and even negative attention is still attention. It also sounds like he has a lot of pent up energy he needs to expend at this time of day. So instead of spending all the time playing his game, try throwing sticks or balls or even the rope toys Michael suggested for him and let him run after them. Milo is one I definitely would NOT recommend or suggest tug of war type games with; his bite inhibition has already crossed a line you don't want and that could serve to make it worse. Walks would also be a good idea as has been mentioned - get rid of some of that energy. I'd also recommend getting him into obedience classes as soon as possible.

Btw, is there any correlation to his somewhat aggressive play with other pups and his over excited reaction towards strangers? with this burst of violent behaviour?

Not necessarily. Milo sounds like something of a dominant personality and he's exploring what he can and can't get away with with humans and with other dogs too. This behavior is something that does need to be addressed and gotten in hand and the sooner the better.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

If a person is going to use a choke collar on an animal, they need to be shown how to use it and use it properly. My obedience instructor says to "never" leave this type of collar on a dog because they can catch it on something and strangle. Also, from articles I have read on animal behavior and dog training, tug of war games are not recommended because they can teach agression. A corgi should be handled and played with gently to teach gentleness. I would suggest using a squirt bottle of water and when he grabs your clothes or bites at you, spray him. I have never tried this but it might work. I also do not recommend the chase game with your pup because it teaches them to run from you as a game and if they ever get loose, they may think it is a game and end up in traffic.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by sweetlychee

Advice: Corgis are natural nippers and barkers.
But, you have to understand what they are barking you at. Corgis are very smart and they do tend to get bored of playing the same toys and routine. They really crave for someone to play with. My Milo still does that. So when you have some time, set aside even 30 minutes to play with them and exhaust them out.

Too many broad generalizations about the breed(s), and not necessarily accurate ones I'm afraid. Puppy nipping is a dog thing, not a corgi only thing. I do agree Milo2 does need more exercise and playtime stimulation it sounds like.

Debbie

[milles2]

Tuck wnet thru the nippy stage but what snapped him out of it was a Jack Russell at day care who would correct him. After 2 days w/ the JRT he never nipped again. However.... now when I dry him off with a towel he thnks it is play. He has his mouth open as if to bite but never bites. All the same, I am always scratching myself on his teeth/open mouth.

Lulu nips to get my attention. She gets a firm "no bites". I also fold my arms and turn away from her. She seems to understand and stops.

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by sweetlychee

Oooh, lots of corgis named Milo. But my Milo is a big 9 month old now...almost 10 months old.

Advice: Corgis are natural nippers and barkers. But, you have to understand what they are barking you at. Corgis are very smart and they do tend to get bored of playing the same toys and routine. They really crave for someone to play with. My Milo still does that. So when you have some time, set aside even 30 minutes to play with them and exhaust them out.

Milo loves his toys but he also loves to play with us. Some games he enjoys with us: #1 - Tugging the rope and pulling it. He's very determined. #2 - Pretending to chase his him. He looks back once he knows we stop chasing him. It gives him a good exercise rush.

Do whatever games feel right and fits your corgi. A little bit goes a long way. Eventually the nipping and barking will go away. Trust me, they are barking to tell you they want to play - not out of being mean.

Good luck.

Mabel,

My last Corgi(female) would have proved you wrong She was in no way a nipper, and she never barked. She was a calm, gentle dog.

[sweetlychee]

Well, I wish Milo was not a barker. He only nipped us during the first few weeks we got him. Now, he doesn't nip at all. He just barks when he wants to play with us or wants our food.

It's rather a broad generalization on dogs/corgis if they nip but isn't it true about barking too? Not all dogs are barkers but when we think of barking, we associate that with dogs. That's my point.

Katherine - You have to pinpoint why your Milo is doing that and watch carefully. Observing is #1. Then take action.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by sweetlychee

Well, I wish Milo was not a barker. He only nipped us during the first few weeks we got him. Now, he doesn't nip at all. He just barks when he wants to play with us or wants our food.

What about the resource guarding of your fiance when the two of you are "playfighting/horsing around"?

It's rather a broad generalization on dogs/corgis if they nip but isn't it true about barking too? Not all dogs are barkers but when we think of barking, we associate that with dogs. That's my point.

Puppies nip, it's a puppy thing. Dogs bark, it's a dog thing. Some breeds are known for being barky and individual dogs of a breed not known for being barkers can be barkers. I didn't get that meaning out of the original statement, it seemed directed at being corgi-specific, which is isn't and that was my point. It's just like anytime a corgi puppy bites at ankles it [i]HAS[i] to be herding right? No, that's a puppy thing, not necessarily anything at all to do with herding instinct.

Katherine - You have to pinpoint why your Milo is doing that and watch carefully. Observing is #1. Then take action.

He's doing it because he can, it is allowed and he has gotten away with it. Not always a deeper meaning to behaviors.

Debbie