Dominant Dog

[gemjunkie]

Ok, I took my girl to her first lesson yesterday. The trainer litterally laughed at me, saying we would have fun because I have a dominant dog so training will be a 'bit' more of a challenge. She did VERY well in class but I've been working with her on a daily basis.

What exactly am I up against? This dog made an 80lb lab mix boy roll on his back and piddle.... Not to mention that I'm having one hell of a time with her and one of my kids that thinks is HILLARIOUS to have her on the floor rough housing but them screams in terror when the dog doesn't want to stop and she does. This nets the girl AND the dog both a time out, one in the corner, one in the crate. It's easier to make the dog stop than the girl.

I get her to sit when I say sit, and she will lay down when I say lay down but where I run into issue, is trying to get her to 'heel'. She wants to pull.

ANYONE out there with a dominant dog have any suggestions/experiences?
TIA!~
~Pam~

[Chip's Mom]

Just curious - what exactly did she do to make the 80lb lab mix boy roll on his back and piddle?

[gemjunkie]

I'm not really sure. I was talking to the dogs owner and they were nose sniffing when she made a low growl, even though she was in the head down butt up pose, he flopped over on his back and piddled. Right after they started playing... ?? She tried to jump on his back a couple times right after he got up. She is just about 5 months and he is 8 months old (or more, a rescue). He seemed to be happy to try to follow her after that.

Course, I had to be made an example of in my class with the instructor showing a dom. vs. sub. dog. *sigh*

~Pam~
AKA: Sophie's Mom

[Bayoucorgi]

Oh I love a challenge! You will love a dominant B---- more in the end. It's so much easier to slow them down than to speed them up. Good luck!

[gemjunkie]

HA! I like that point of view! I'll have to remember that one! Thanks!!!

~Pam~
AKA:Sophie's Mom

[Chip's Mom]

Did the instructor show you how to correct her from growling at this dog? If she growls at another dog, she may not get the same reaction and a fight could come about very quickly. In our class, we soon learn which dogs are growlers and avoid them and the instructor teaches the handler ways to overcome this.

[Dillydoodle]

Deleted my post

[glencorgi]

Okay ... I've given this a lot of thought, read all the responses and am not convinced that there is truly a dominance issue with Sophie.

Originally Posted by gemjunkie

I was talking to the dogs owner and they were nose sniffing when she made a low growl, even though she was in the head down butt up pose, ...

Without seeing the dogs and their body language and basing my conclusion on what is written and described here - nothing in this description is necessarily projecting dominance. All of this could have been nothing more than an invitation to play.

... he flopped over on his back and piddled. Right after they started playing... ??

He could just be a very beta/submissive personality and he was just communicating that to Sophie. Again, nothing screaming Sophie has a dominant personality.

She tried to jump on his back a couple times right after he got up. She is just about 5 months and he is 8 months old (or more, a rescue). He seemed to be happy to try to follow her after that.

Jumping on his back, might be nothing more than trying to get him down to her level to play. She had more confidence and presence, so he deferred to her as leader. Still nothing screaming "she's dominant" to me.

Course, I had to be made an example of in my class with the instructor showing a dom. vs. sub. dog. *sigh*

Dominant vs submissive dog in this specific individual pairing. How was she with other dogs in the class? And in case my questions get missed from another thread - what are the instructors' breeds and what have they done and/or what activities are they involved with them now?

I just got back from watching six young Cardigans have a romp. They range in age from the eldest around 2 years old (female), Munchee (18 month old male), male puppy around 9 months of age and as big as Munchee, and Berry and two of her siblings (a brother & a sister) now five months old. The two older Cardis, Munchee mounted - a sign of territory (they are at his house) and dominance to a degree in that they are at his house and he's above them in pack heirachy. Munchee is not a dominant personality dog - he's just teaching a proper doggie etiquette message. The oldest female, she played the role of fun police, breaking up wrestling matches that were getting to be too much fun, giving corrections to the three siblings, placing her chin over them and sending the message she was their elder and they should respect her. The younger threesome took turns jumping on the adult size dogs, including their backs and even ganged up on Munchee and the older male puppy and even mount them. The three siblings will also mount each other randomly and then exchange words like "I'm the boss of you!" "No you're not, I'm the boss of you!" followed by "I'm the boss of both of you!!!!!!" The alpha personality out there in the dogs belonged to the 2 year old female. Is she a dominant personality - no, not really and she is a snuggle bug and a half. Munchee is a nurturer and playful personality. The older Cardigan puppy - has some confidence issues, but equally loving and snuggly. Now the siblings - Brother Leo is about as laid back a puppy as comes along more like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. He's exerting and asserting himself a little more tho. Sister Scarlett is a lap baby - loves to be up in a lap even if the other two are on a tear romping around the room, tugging on toys and raising general havoc. She also enjoys being right in the midst of the havoc. Berry, well my sweet little princess , out of the six is probably closest to being a true dominant personality. She's usually too busy to cuddle, but is very affectionate, gives lots of kisses, plays my shadow, very attentive, yet wants to be on the go and pretty much has no fear.

My point is even if a dog shows dominance in one situation or pairing, doesn't necessarily mean they have a dominant personality. Corgis, if there is no order or clear distinction as to who is the head will take it upon themselves to assume that role whether it is suited to their personality type or not. I have had fosters that took on that role in their original family. They weren't truly happy in that position and it carried over into their early days in foster care, but once they learned there was a competent human in charge and would handle things; they settled down and became much happier simply because they had a leader. Be careful of your labels, you can draw un-needed trouble and issues to yourself and your relationship with Sophie. First night in a class is not always the best indicator or time to assess what one really has in a dog either.

Debbie

[gemjunkie]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

My point is even if a dog shows dominance in one situation or pairing, doesn't necessarily mean they have a dominant personality. Corgis, if there is no order or clear distinction as to who is the head will take it upon themselves to assume that role whether it is suited to their personality type or not. I have had fosters that took on that role in their original family. They weren't truly happy in that position and it carried over into their early days in foster care, but once they learned there was a competent human in charge and would handle things; they settled down and became much happier simply because they had a leader. Be careful of your labels, you can draw un-needed trouble and issues to yourself and your relationship with Sophie. First night in a class is not always the best indicator or time to assess what one really has in a dog either.

Debbie

This is what I was thinking with my girl.... I think the whole 'diagnosis' if you will, was a snap jugement and incorrect. After watching her with a bonified dominant (rottie female owned by a friend of mine), she really would rather follow. She did not even TRY to challenge, she instantly started that whole puppy yipping thing, bouncing around with her behind in the air, wiggle butting all over for Cleo, rolling over a couple times (not piddling but submitting all the same) and then they played and played! (I have to borrow my mom's camera and get a vid. clip or two, it's the cutes thing to see!!! I suppose it would also settle one way or another the dom. thing too!)

The one lady, has 2 cardigans NOW. I'll have to ask the other if she's had corgis or what she's basing her jugement on... (Posted about that on another thread.)

This girl has come a LONG way in the last few weeks. I've been working on her training 2 times a day for 10 to 15 minutes at a time and randomely getting her to sit, stay and lay down and of course she has to wait to go out or come in EVERY time. Just seems to be about a 15 minute time limit to her attention span at this age and I'll lengthen that as she gets older....

Is there some way to get her to respond to me the same way outside as she does when we are inside, maybe hold her attention a little longer than 3 minutes? Seems the more distractions and noises, the shorter her attention span is even when I have the GOOD treats.. I'm chalking it up to puppy-tude and will just have to keep trying! Persistance and consistancy...