Corgi's fighting

[beach4me]

Corgi number one has been with us since she was a pup and a female. She is a very much in charge kind of dog. However, she knows I am boss and she had never been a discipline problem.

So, a couple of years later we added Corgi #2. She was a year and a half old. She is a fluffy and a breeder had her. She had lived with the other Corgi's and was a very happy, sweet dog. However, the breeder never tried to find her a home. I really think that she was not socialized very well. She is kindof "weird". The least little noise sends her running into hiding. She also likes to live, all day long in our closet. In the dark, under the clothes. She will not come out unless I go in there and make her come out. After breakfast, she runs up the stairs to her closet. She started this about a year ago. It is so bad, we call her closet dog.

Corgi #1 and #2 have always gotten along very well. Corgi #1 has always been boss and corgi #2 has never had a problem with it. She is submissive. However, every morning, when they are let out of their kennels. Corgi #2 kind of charges corgi#1. Likes nips her, barks at her and runs at her. Corgi #1 never participates and sometimes growls at her to back off. Well Corgi #2 always bounds out the door first and turns around to charge at Corgi #1 to the point, she does not want to go out.

At Christmas, my husband brought home a Chocolate Lab that was five years old. Very laid back and submissive. She has fit in fine. To have never been in contact with other dogs, she is doing great.

Now, Cori #1 and #2 are starting to get into fights. Corgi #1 is always snarling at her. Once I left all three in the backyard for a couple of hours and when I came home, Corgi #2 had a torn ear and blood everywhere. Corgi #1 had a cut on the mouth.

This morning, I let them out of the kennels and there goes corgi #2 charging at Corgi #1. This time, the fight is on. corgi #2 put her whole mouth around Corgi #1's ear and would not let go. My husband tried to pry her mouth off of the ear and she would not budge. This went on for quite some time. Finally, we hit Corgi #2 until she let go. It was awful. No blood but Corgi #1 has a very sore ear.

We have kept them separated for most of the day. They seem to tolerate each other but that is about it.

What am I going to do? All three are females and the lab has not been fixed yet. I know there has to be some reason behind all of this but what? I have never had three dogs and I can not and will not tolerate this fighting.

Help!

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by beach4me

Corgi #1 and #2 have always gotten along very well. Corgi #1 has always been boss and corgi #2 has never had a problem with it. She is submissive. However, every morning, when they are let out of their kennels. Corgi #2 kind of charges corgi#1. Likes nips her, barks at her and runs at her. Corgi #1 never participates and sometimes growls at her to back off. Well Corgi #2 always bounds out the door first and turns around to charge at Corgi #1 to the point, she does not want to go out.

At Christmas, my husband brought home a Chocolate Lab that was five years old. Very laid back and submissive. She has fit in fine. To have never been in contact with other dogs, she is doing great.

Now, Cori #1 and #2 are starting to get into fights. Corgi #1 is always snarling at her. Once I left all three in the backyard for a couple of hours and when I came home, Corgi #2 had a torn ear and blood everywhere. Corgi #1 had a cut on the mouth.

What am I going to do? All three are females and the lab has not been fixed yet. I know there has to be some reason behind all of this but what? I have never had three dogs and I can not and will not tolerate this fighting.

Help!

I snipped some of your post.

First thing you do is go have all three spayed. Taking the hormones out of the mix should help.

As for the corgis, often once two corgi girls decide they don't like each other, that's it. IMO, I would NEVER leave them alone together without human supervision. They might learn to tolearate each other with humans around, but all bets are off once they are alone.

It sounds to me like corgi #2 is an omega dog. And corgi #1 is an alpha wanna be. (See my article "What is an Alpha Dog) under behavior I belive.

First thing I'd do is spay them all and then go from there.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Spaying may or may not have an effect that is positive re the relationship of your Corgis and Lab with each other. You and your husband can definitely be a little less tolerant in sending out a clear message to your dogs. But hiding for hours and hours at all times of the day in a little dark room is THE major problem. I would not let your Corgi have access to the closet and instead ensure she has comforts and toys and things to chew in open places. Maybe she also wants some space from the other Corgi in particular ( Your number one Corgi is probably THE problem as she is overly dominant - if not in words and actions, but in her subtle body language and inner spirit towards your fluffy Corgi. So I would give yor fluffy separate affection and attention and walks/exercise/outings on a regular basis and away from the others. Build up her confidence, her trust and her happiness.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

I would not let your Corgi have access to the closet and instead ensure she has comforts and toys and things to chew in open places.

IMO, she is hiding because she feels secure and safe there. I'm not so sure that taking away her "safe" place is a good idea. She needs to be able to go somewhere that she feels she will be safe and not attackes. Making her stay in the open isn't going to help her there.

If you can remove the problem that's making her feel insecure then she should start coming out on her own.

Also, often when two corgi girls decide they don't like each other it's that way for life. Hard as it might be maybe you should think about rehoming corgi #2. She might flourish in a home as an only dog.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

A safe place from what? Dogs are fearful animals and they show their fear sometimes with different kinds of aggression and sometimes with timidity. The problem with Corgi number two could very well be Corgi number one. So let's try to get the poor thing from out of the closet (as well as the problem) and by building up the confidence, providing a lot more of individual and separate attention and by lending lots of support, Corgi number two might not need a dark place to hide away.

[glencorgi]

I agree with Peggy. The closet has become her "den" where she feels safe and unthreatened.

Also very true about two corgi girls deciding they don't like each other. Rehoming or keeping them separate for the rest of their lives are about the only solutions that will not end up in veterinary visits.

Debbie

[beach4me]

Thanks for all the replys. You guys are right on.

I have been doing some reading and yes Corgi #2 is an omega, to a T. I left her outside to play with the Lab today and have not let her in the closet since about 2 pm. However, I have left her kennel open (which she loves as well) and she has not gone it there. This was her safe place until she discovered the closet a while ago. She has laid out in the open and been going in and out with the other dogs. They really don't seem mad with one another. But we are still keeping our eye on them for safe keeping.

I was reading where people often mess up the pack because of not keeping them in their "place". I definately think this is true in our case. I see numerous things we have done to favor omega over the alpha.

The lab is clueless. I just can't tell you how clueless she is. I think she is just happy to be out of that 5x7 cage and with people who like her, she could care less where her place is.

Keep the comments and suggestions coming. I think you guys are definately leading me in the right direction.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

A safe place from what? Dgs are fearful animals and they show their fear sometimes with different kinds of aggression and sometimes with timidity.

Dogs are fearful animals? Do you mean by nature? ??? It is possible corgi #2 has a very soft temperament genetically. She just might be one that is easily intimidated and bullied. And yes I am aware fearful dogs sometimes react with aggression. Underconfident is a little different (and yes I AM speaking from hands on experience here). An underconfident dog can take leadership and confidence from another dog. There are also activities one can do to build up confidence. Two that pop to mind, one was my second foster and she never reacted with aggression towards humans or other dogs. The other, now in our foster program is growing in confidence by learning tricks and somewhat "earning" his way. He is also fine wth other dogs. A third that just sprang to mind, was fine with other dogs and most comfortable with them - she would react with fear biting towards humans though.

The problem with Corgi number two could very well be Corgi number one.

That seems pretty obvious. The part of the equation we are missing here is how and where the Lab is fitting into the dynamics. Building up corgi #2's confidence though is not going to help in getting along with corgi #1 though. Corgi #2 has figured out her best defense against corgi #1 is a good offense. All the focus has been on corgi #2, but corgi #1 has some issues that need to be addressed as well. For example, her bullying and intimidation tactics should not be allowed and a knot (figuratively speaking of course) needs to be yanked in her little tail-less bum. Humans need to take charge and say - not allowed little lady.

Debbie

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

A safe place from what?

Who knows, corgi #1 would be my guess. From life, from whatever it is she is fearful of.

The problem with Corgi number two could very well be Corgi number one.

No kidding!

So let's try to get the poor thing from out of the closet (as well as the problem) and by building up the confidence, providing a lot more of individual and separate attention and by lending lots of support, Corgi number two might not need a dark place to hide away.

Get her out and force her to face corgi number one and have another fight, yeah, that will get her to be more confident.

I agree she needs seperate time and attention. But until you remove the source of her fear, which is most likely corgi #1 she isn't going to be more confident or want to come out and be part of the family.

You can't just change a dog's mind about things by forcing them to face their fears. It's not that easy. She's going to be thinking all the time that the other corgi just might get her.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Obedience training can help too. I'd start with corgi number 1. And I'd put her on the "Nothing In Life Is Free" program. Reinforce that YOU are the alpha her and that YOU make the rules she needs to comply with.

Nothing in Life is Free
http://www.goof.com/~pmurphy/NILIF.html
Nothing in Life is Free Gaining control of your dog humanely

Still I would not allow them together unsupervised by humans. And yes, this is from my experience also. When two corgi girls decide they hate each other it's very hard, if not impossible to change minds.

And also from experience, I have seen where spaying works. I had two sisters that didn't get along until both were spayed at age 7. Now if I had known, I'd have spayed both earlier. So Yes, my first step here would be to spay them. Step two would be obedience and NIFL programs.

And keep in mind that just maybe one of the corgis would do better in a home as an only dog. If they both get along with the lab then it would be up to you to decide which would do better in another home.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Peggy - you are great at arguing with yourself. Who's winning?
You can get dogs to face their fears and build up confidence. I am dong just that at present with Taylor and the seesaw and it is working well at the moment - we have reached the point of confidently tackling two thirds of the normal height of the big dog's seesaw. There is a chocolate coloured Lab at agility training who dislikes Taylor and a few other dogs and Taylor has learnt to cope with this dog who has attacked him twice and threatend to attack on several other occasions. But Taylor knows how to avoid a conflict, by keeping distance apart, not crossing paths directly, avoiding eye contact and coming away when called.