How are Corgis with children?

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Peggy - you are not always wrong and often make good sense.

Michael to be honest, I've not seen that from your comments on my posts. You've made me feel very unwanted here. I'm on sevearal other lists/forums and no where else am I treated like I am here. I am not always right, no one is, and I've admitted when I've been wrong. Others have disagreed with me and I can accept that, and their opinions. However, you don't just disagree you tell me I'm wrong almost every time. I feel like you think all my opinions and experience are totally worthless.

Just look at the range of Terriers sometime and you will see that some breeds of Terriers are among the worse behaved of any breed of dog and others are little angels.

As Debbie states, I do know the range of terriers. I am well aware that in that group like others that there is a range of behaviors. However, as a whole, "terriers" are known for being tenacious and not backing down.

In fact a Tibetan Terrier is not a Terrier at all.

I'm well aware of that too.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Peggy - you are quite correct. Terriers are tenacious. I must be a Terrier. It is my enthusiasm to point out that Corgis of either sex can and do mix in well with Terriers - some Terrier types better than others.

[glencorgi]

Tenacity paired with a bold outlook doesn't always mix well. That's why the suggestion for getting the opposite sex of the Cairn was strongly recommended.

Michael, I'd say you were more of a yellow Lab X Irish Setter mix.

Debbie

[llanfey]

Peggy,

I usually read as a guest and even though I have great mentors and support in being relatively new to the corgi world, I don't have the background and experience you do. My observations in reading a lot of the interchanges, well one thing keeps popping into my mind - The Emperor's New Clothes fable.

HR

[Michael Romanos]

Debbie - I think I am the Terrier, Americans thought Corgis were. Perhaps I am the missing link between Pems and Cardis.

[glencorgi]

Oh one thing I'm pretty sure you are not is the missing link between Pems and Cardis and I don't think obsessive disorders should be confused with tenacity.

Saw an interesting quote tonight: "Perhaps we should sometimes try NOT to
be so much like our dogs. Picture a good b*tch fight in the backyard, and
the meaning will become clear."

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Debbie - it is very good of you to infer that there is a missing link between Pems and Cardis because previously you dispayed great conviction that they are unrelated.

There is a saying: if the boot fits, wear it.

Dogs are people - just a different kind. Dogs have all the emotiions that humans have and those of us who understand this, threat dogs , well differently, from those who can't see past the square.

One thing we might agree on is the use of the word bitch to signify a female dog. I never use this word in respect of a female dog and you always don't complete the word when you use it - thus b*tch. My book, Amazing Dog Stories, not once refers to a female dog as a bitch. And neither does any of the hundreds of articles and stories I have had published in mags, newspapers etc. And the reason why I don't use the word bitch is because it is still regarded by most humans as a rude and abusive word so I cannot see the point of using it to describe a female dog. I have too much respect for dogs. Dogs can be males, females, boys, girls, fellows. To me a dog is a dog ie either female or male. Not dog = male and bitch = female. Doesn't make much sense. So I am doing my little bit to change thinking.

What do other members think?

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Debbie - it is very good of you to infer that there is a missing link between Pems and Cardis because previously you dispayed great conviction that they are unrelated.

Don't read too much into it Michael. IF and that is a big IF, there is a missing link ---- you certainly "ain't" it. Nothing about your temperament, personality or any other traits are reflective of either corgi breed.

There is a saying: if the boot fits, wear it.

And on that note ...

Dogs are people - just a different kind. Dogs have all the emotiions that humans have and those of us who understand this, threat dogs , well differently, from those who can't see past the square.

Your AR leanings are shining through. Dogs are NOT people or children in furry suits. They are dogs. I am not a "pet parent" or a pet guardian, I am a dog OWNER and my conglomerate is a pretty spoiled bunch, thank you very much. Being a Cesar fan, I would have thought you would have understood that message. Anthromophosizing them does a great disservice to the creatures they are and is the cause for many behavioral issues and problems that arise. Plus, I don't threaten my dogs.

One thing we might agree on is the use of the word bitch to signify a female dog. I never use this word in respect of a female dog and you always don't complete the word when you use it - thus b*tch. My book, Amazing Dog Stories, not once refers to a female dog as a bitch. And neither does any of the hundreds of articles and stories I have had published in mags, newspapers etc. And the reason why I don't use the word bitch is because it is still regarded by most humans as a rude and abusive word so I cannot see the point of using it to describe a female dog. I have too much respect for dogs. Dogs can be males, females, boys, girls, fellows. To me a dog is a dog ie either female or male. Not dog = male and bitch = female. Doesn't make much sense. So I am doing my little bit to change thinking.

What do other members think?

Bitch IS the CORRECT terminology for a female dog, nothing perjorative about it at all. The negatives inferred from its use or the word, again has to do with humans anthromorphosizing dogs. This is not a "dog world" forum, but if you'll notice when I usually use the term it is in threads having to do with more dog world type topics. I will give you the reasons I use "b*tch"

1) Some list servs will cancel lists for the use of profanity. In the case of bitch, it isn't profanity but more along the lines of what spell check will do. It is like writing the sentence, "I want to reed that book." Spell check is not going to catch *reed* should be *read*.

2) As I said earlier, this isn't a "dog world" forum and I do take into consideration the sensibilities of the majority of the members here. We have also had children participating not always with parental supervision it has appeared. My use of b*tch is just trying to be considerate. Now dog show people, well their kids going to school and announcing they've just gotten a new bitch puppy - that's another story for another time.

Debbie

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

Your AR leanings are shining through. Dogs are NOT people or children in furry suits. They are dogs. I am not a "pet parent" or a pet guardian, I am a dog OWNER and my conglomerate is a pretty spoiled bunch, thank you very much. Being a Cesar fan, I would have thought you would have understood that message. Anthromophosizing them does a great disservice to the creatures they are and is the cause for many behavioral issues and problems that arise.

I agree with Debbie. Dogs are NOT people. They are dogs. I love my dogs and often call them "kids", but they are dogs. Even when we think of them as part of the family they are dogs and not people.

Dogs do have feelings and thoughts but they do not think like people do. They think like dogs. And when we understand how they think we can live with them much easier.

Bitch IS the CORRECT terminology for a female dog, nothing perjorative about it at all. The negatives inferred from its use or the word, again has to do with humans anthromorphosizing dogs. This is not a "dog world" forum, but if you'll notice when I usually use the term it is in threads having to do with more dog world type topics.

I agree with Debbie on this topic too. And I understand the reaon for the * in the word at times, to get past computer list censors. It is a proper term when speaking of female dogs and no one should take it as derogatory when used in that refrence.

And IMO, there is no missing link between Cardigans and Pembrokes. Nothing missing there at all. Yes, some were interbred, but not all of them, and we don't know which ones are related or which ones aren't.

Peggy

[Bayoucorgi]

I had those mellow yellow rug-like dogs called Golden Retrievers. Not at all like Corgis. I had a father and son who HATED each other and could never be trusted together. I had a mother and daughter who established their heirarchy and had a tense peace for their entire lives. I had a weird brother who couldn't stand his sister and bit me in his fight. We have a half sister who hates her sibs, but all the other sibs get along in a pack of 5. So it's not gender all the time. The dog's age, dominance or lack thereof, individual temperament, the existing and future "pack" structure all play.

I personally would not have that many dogs with a 5-year-old child. Old, young or otherwise. One Christmas we had our "pack" out for fetch and play. My dad's Viszla was visiting and my friends' dogs were visiting. All was well as they all knew each other. Then the Viszla said the wrong thing. He caught the bumper and lifted his lip at my friend's male Golden of similar age. That male grabbed my dad's dog by the throat and when he yiked all the other dogs jumped in. It was a melee. We waded in and separated everyone and no humans were bitten. The Viszla required emergency surgery and nearly died.

A 50 yo woman in my suburb was killed recently when she took in her mother's dog. The woman's other two dogs did not accept the new dog and when she was trying to separate one of their battles, they turned on her. She had bites from at least two of the dogs. They were euthanized.

My pastor's 3yo son was bitten in the face weekend before last by a Labrador at a bed and breakfast where they were vacationing. It was unprovoked. The child was petting a pet deer and turned and said Hi doggy and the dog bit him. The top teeth ripped his nose and cheek and the bottom teeth went through his lip. He had urgen plastic surgery last Saturday night.

I've had other incidents of well established packs where a puppy will yark and seemingly gentle dogs will "flip out" and ALL will attack it. There was the time the mellowest bitch in the world tried to yank the fence-fighting Llasa through the chain-link fence.

So my point is even a "trusted dog" can be unsafe with a young child. If a dog hits a child it will almost always be in the face. Multiple dogs means they will form a "pack" and live by their laws and less by ours. If an accident happens or something sets them off, a child could be seriously injured or killed.

My children are 16, 15, and 12. My 15 yo is over 6 feet tall. The corgi herds them if they run. And he's nipped the 12yo mildly on the ankle several times and at very least he likes to push HARD with his nose. Because my youngest is a screamer and he likes to make a scene. And of course we correct both boy and dog but it still happens. I love this dog but he wouldn't be MY first choice for younger children.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Bayoucorgi

So my point is even a "trusted dog" can be unsafe with a young child. If a dog hits a child it will almost always be in the face. Multiple dogs means they will form a "pack" and live by their laws and less by ours. If an accident happens or something sets them off, a child could be seriously injured or killed.

You're right, when there's a fight and you have mulitple dogs, "pack order" kicks in and dogs almost all dogs available will get involved. Even dogs that wouldn't normally start a fight on their own will join in.

And seperating a pack fight is much different than seperating just two dogs. They usually gang up on one dog and getting them off is not easy.

Anytime you have multiple dogs (meaning more than two) this is a possiblity and as mentioned it can be with any breed.

It was a very good caution to bring up.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Hello. This is change the myth time.

Three or more Corgis together can be called a 'crew of Corgis' in place of 'pack,' because 'pack' don't make much sense and best describes a set of playing cards.

A dog is a dog of the canine variety and is divided into a male dog and a female dog. Bitch need not exist as a word to describe a female dog.

Cardigan Corgis and Pembroke Corgis are closely related and even resemble each other and have mostly similar traits in having emerged from a tiny Principality.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Hello. This is change the myth time.

More like make up one's own little myth.

Three or more Corgis together can be called a 'crew of Corgis' in place of 'pack,' because 'pack' don't make much sense and best describes a set of playing cards.

They can be called anything anyone wishes as a term of endearment or nickname or informal reference. However, when using proper terminology, they are a pack. I have decks of cards, not packs of cards. I do think referring to corgis as "cards" does seem quite appropriate given their mischevious and entertaining nature.

A dog is a dog of the canine variety and is divided into a male dog and a female dog. Bitch need not exist as a word to describe a female dog.

Get back to me when the NZKC, FCI, AKC, CKC, the KC and others sign on to this, until then I will continue to use dog and bitch appropriately.

Cardigan Corgis and Pembroke Corgis are closely related and even resemble each other and have mostly similar traits in having emerged from a tiny Principality.

To a novice, uniformed. untrained and unknowledgeable eye perhaps they might, from someone who lives with both breeds they don't. Bone, ears, head, body proportions. personalities, barks ... my husband will even tell you they don't look alike. When you can show me breed characteristic by breed characteristic how similar Mon and Red Dragon are, then maybe I'll pay some attention to your contentions.

Debbie

[beach4me]

Not jumping in on any discussion here. I am far from an expert. But my reality right now is...

We got our first Corgi as a puppy. My children were 3,6 and 9. She has been wonderful. I constantly have kids/people in and out of my house. She likes everyone and does not nip. However, we were consistent as a puppy to stop this behavior. She is by far the best dog ever.....but beware of the hair!

Also, my second Corgi is just as wonderful. She is a rescue. The sweetest most loving dog ever!

BUT...six months ago, the two females decided to hate each other. I can't describe to you how bad it is. This is after four years of nothing but love.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by beach4me

Not jumping in on any discussion here. I am far from an expert. But my reality right now is...

We got our first Corgi as a puppy. My children were 3,6 and 9. She has been wonderful. I constantly have kids/people in and out of my house. She likes everyone and does not nip. However, we were consistent as a puppy to stop this behavior. She is by far the best dog ever.....but beware of the hair!

Also, my second Corgi is just as wonderful. She is a rescue. The sweetest most loving dog ever!

BUT...six months ago, the two females decided to hate each other. I can't describe to you how bad it is. This is after four years of nothing but love.

No need to describe it, I've been there. And it's been my experience that when two females decide they hate each other there is no going back.

Your choices are to either place one or to find a way to keep them seperated at all times. And with kids the ages of yours that will present problems at times.

Peggy