Protective of food

[Chip's Mom]

I fed Chip puppy food for about 7 to 8 months I think and started Dale on puppy food when I brought him home. The only thing was Chip was eating it and Dale was eating Chip's adult food so I stopped buying the puppy food and fed both the same adult food. Dale is growing just fine and is almost the same size as Chip now and Chip isn't putting on the extra fat from the puppy food.

[Michael Romanos]

Taflar - you are now qualifying your stance by saying that there is no harm in feeding puppies dog food recommended by its producers 'for all lifestages.'
These so branded food (as previously explained) are ok for puppies, adult and senior dogs because they are puppy-based formulated. In other words a puppy/adult/senior can thrive on food for all lifestages but adult or senior designated food is not produced with the needs of puppies catered for. It's as simple as that. If yoi can't work this out I can further explain it Small dogs as opposed to large size dogs in particular are in need of the things that puppy food provides.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Taflar - you are now qualifying your stance by saying that there is no harm in feeding puppies dog food recommended by its producers 'for all lifestages.'
These so branded food (as previously explained) are ok for puppies, adult and senior dogs because they are puppy-based formulated. In other words a puppy/adult/senior can thrive on food for all lifestages but adult or senior designated food is not produced with the needs of puppies catered for. It's as simple as that. If yoi can't work this out I can further explain it Small dogs as opposed to large size dogs in particular are in need of the things that puppy food provides.

To quote the Geico caveman, "WHAT????????"

Debbie

[Vannette]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Taflar - you are now qualifying your stance by saying that there is no harm in feeding puppies dog food recommended by its producers 'for all lifestages.'
These so branded food (as previously explained) are ok for puppies, adult and senior dogs because they are puppy-based formulated. In other words a puppy/adult/senior can thrive on food for all lifestages but adult or senior designated food is not produced with the needs of puppies catered for. It's as simple as that. If yoi can't work this out I can further explain it Small dogs as opposed to large size dogs in particular are in need of the things that puppy food provides.

LOL too funny. Peggy is NOT a newby Michael. Me...yeah LOL Peggy...no
Vannette

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Vannette

LOL too funny. Peggy is NOT a newby Michael. Me...yeah LOL Peggy...no

Thank you Vannette. Michael refuses to ackowledge my years of experience. He says I am not an expert since I don't have a degree in corgis. Seems the collage of hard knocks/experience doesn't count. Or the fact that live with more dogs daily than he's probably owned in his lifetime. Or that I've raised more puppies than he's ever imagained raising.

As for his quote (I don't read his posts anymore, or respond to them since all he does is insult me and argue with me.)

Taflar - you are now qualifying your stance by saying that there is no harm in feeding puppies dog food recommended by its producers 'for all lifestages.'
These so branded food (as previously explained) are ok for puppies, adult and senior dogs because they are puppy-based formulated. In other words a puppy/adult/senior can thrive on food for all lifestages but adult or senior designated food is not produced with the needs of puppies catered for. It's as simple as that. If yoi can't work this out I can further explain it Small dogs as opposed to large size dogs in particular are in need of the things that puppy food provides.

First of all I am NOT Taflar, I am Peggy. Taflar is my kennel name. The only reason it's my id is that I couldn't get a reasonable password with my real name. I signed up some time ago, forgot the password and can't get in that way, so signed on with my kennel name as my id. And yes, if you'd like to remove my other subscription that would be fine.

The comment about "for all life stages" was solely for your benefit Michael. As everyone else seems to understand that adult foods are all formulated for ALL life stages. At least the ones here in the US. I've yet so see a bag labled for adults only. And yes, I understand that the senior foods are adult only but that's a different thing all together.

Adult food IS fine for puppies. It will not harm them and someone who feeds adult food to a puppy is not a horrible owner.

Peggy

[Peggy]

You know, it doesn't even really matter if it says for "all life stages" or not. It's the same ingredients as the adult food, with less calcium, and maybe less protein and fat content. The the lower values in calcium, protein and fat are exactly WHY I feed an adult food and not a puppy formula. The puppies grow slower and that's better for them.

It's fast growth, or accelrated growth that causes problems and can be a cause of panosteitis.

Michael, if you want to talk to someone who introduced me to this way of feeding, contact Pat Hastings. She will talk to people on the phone or by email. You can contact her through her web site. Dogfolk Enterprises - Videos, Books and Seminars for puppy evaluation and dog showing Talk with Pat and see if you then have the same ideas about puppy foods.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Taflar/Peggy - you are going around in circles and all this produces is to implant into Corgi owners and potential Corgi owners on Go Corgi a method of feeding Corgis - puppies in particular - with the wrong food for their particular life stage that they are in. The great dog food producing companies with premium international reputations on the line, do not produce food for the sake of it and do not attempt to mislead the public. They have years of research behind them and they engage highly qualified canine nutritionists and other qualified people at great expense. You are wrong in previously stating that these producers make and promote puppy/senior food because it makes more profit for them. The difference in costs to the buyer is in a lot of cases of no consequence and can even be cheaper - and the products usually cost more to produce anyway. So when they tell you that adult food for Corgi size dogs is for dogs over 12 months and that puppy food is for dogs under 12 months and senior food is for dogs seven years and over, it is not to be disregarded unless there is a absolute specific reason.
One can feed a puppy with dog food recommended only for adults and that puppy can grow up with little apparent problems but the bases for the different ingredients in puppy food may come back to bite his/her bum of the Corgi lacking in whatever, later in life......... and yours.
I have spoken to many people about this subject - and yes, some are expert in the field and in giving out advice to clients, and NONE share yours or Glencorgi's philosophy.
Ideally babies and children and puppies need particular nourishments etc in their formative and growing years/year for a solid platform to their adult and senior stages of life. If you can't buy into that, then so be it - but you should desist from promoting the opposite.

[bec]

Puppy food here in Aus is losing popularity also. Some feel puppy food promotes accelerated growth that results in problems later in life.

I was advised by my corgi breeder to keep my 2 on puppy food until 12 months, but the number of people here that are doing that, are slowly declining. Another corgi breeder here recommended that I switch to adult food at 3 months.

I have friends that dropped puppy food completely for their baby leonberger (which by the way, is a huge, gorgeous fluffy monster) in favor of feeding raw. This was a request of the pup's breeder. The only supplements she gives are fish oil.

I find it a bit off putting that members on an international forum are asked to refrain from promoting their point of view, if it opposes that of the moderator. What is wrong with a bit of healthy debate?

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by bec

Puppy food here in Aus is losing popularity also. Some feel puppy food promotes accelerated growth that results in problems later in life.

I was advised by my corgi breeder to keep my 2 on puppy food until 12 months, but the number of people here that are doing that, are slowly declining. Another corgi breeder here recommended that I switch to adult food at 3 months.

I have friends that dropped puppy food completely for their baby leonberger (which by the way, is a huge, gorgeous fluffy monster) in favor of feeding raw. This was a request of the pup's breeder. The only supplements she gives are fish oil.

Thank you for posting that. At least you're showing that it's not just my opinion and I am not so totally wrong.

Even when I got my first corgi puppy in 1980 we were told to switch him from puppy food to adult food at 4 mos. And we got him from one of the top Pembroke show kennels in the US. So even when i did feed puppy food to my corgis it was never past 4 months. So it wasn't a big leap for me to eliminate it completely.

I find it a bit off putting that members on an international forum are asked to refrain from promoting their point of view, if it opposes that of the moderator. What is wrong with a bit of healthy debate?

I agree. My opinion is just as good as any one elses.

This method of feeding has worked for me. I have dogs here that are 7 years old that I've fed without puppy food and dogs here that are 4 years old.

And why shouldn't I advise others to try something that's worked for me? After all Michael can promote Science Diet till the cows come home and not many of us think that's a proper food for any dog. But if it works for him great.

In America we belive in free speech, not censorship. I expect to be able to post my opinions and what's worked for me from my experiences.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Taflar/Peggy - you are quite correct when you say that anyone on Go Corgi can express their opinion even of it is the wrong one. I apologise for giving you the impression that you cannot express your opinion at any time. Please do. Contrary to what you think, I appreciate your input very much. There is no such thing as free speech but we want to come as close to it as possible and within normal boundaries. Having said That, in my opinion it is dangerous to try and influence new or inexperience owners of Corgis to shift out of puppy food for their puppies on the basis that normal Corgi puppies don't require puppy food. Here is what one high quality dry food for puppies has included to make it specific for puppies benefit as opposed to adult food and senior food: extra protein, minerals (calcium etc) and energy food to help puppies grow up strong and healthy; DHA (Omega 3 fatty acid from fish oil) which is essential in the development of puppies brains and nervous system.

Large size breeds are treated differently - shorter span on puppy food diet and a different formulated puppy food.

An internationally recognised Pembroke breeder and show conformation judge says that many Corgis in the USA and in some other places are not endeared with strong bone and have other debilitating factors - she thinks it is because too many Corgi puppies in the USA etc come off puppy food too soon.

[Peggy]

Michael,

I am going to reply this once.

Please drop the Taflar. I have always signed my posts with my name so it's not been hard to know who I am. I much prefer to go by Peggy. I love my dogs but they are the Taflar Corgis. I am not one of them. I am their owner, the owner of Taflar kennel.

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

I apologise for giving you the impression that you cannot express your opinion at any time. Please do. Contrary to what you think, I appreciate your input very much.

Yes, that is the impression I got. And thank you for your appology.

There is no such thing as free speech but we want to come as close to it as possible and within normal boundaries.

Free speech is the abiltiy to voice an opinion freely. Which is what we want here. Of course there are rules as to foul language, adult only content, ect. which I would expect.

Having said That, in my opinion it is dangerous to try and influence new or inexperience owners of Corgis to shift out of puppy food for their puppies on the basis that normal Corgi puppies don't require puppy food. Here is what one high quality dry food for puppies has included to make it specific for puppies benefit as opposed to adult food and senior food: extra protein, minerals (calcium etc) and energy food to help puppies grow up strong and healthy; DHA (Omega 3 fatty acid from fish oil) which is essential in the development of puppies brains and nervous system.

And my opinion is that it is not dangerous. It is a way of feeding puppies and lots of breeders are going that way now.

Large size breeds are treated differently - shorter span on puppy food diet and a different formulated puppy food.

But some of the same problems, such as pano have shown up in corgis. Which indicates to me that it's not just large breeds that can have problems.

An internationally recognised Pembroke breeder and show conformation judge says that many Corgis in the USA and in some other places are not endeared with strong bone and have other debilitating factors - she thinks it is because too many Corgi puppies in the USA etc come off puppy food too soon.

And that's her opinion. I've not seen that corgis in the US don't have strong bones. Or debilitating factors. (And what would these be? Just curious.) My dogs have strong bones. I've not had a problem with bones strength. I've not seen or heard of any problems with corgis breaking bones or not having enough bone strength.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

It is now well known that creating the ideal diet for a puppy is more than meeting mimimum requirements since excess intake of nutrients can be as much of a problem as too little.
Puppies need to consume more energy protein and minerals than adult dogs.
The best protein sources are those that are highly digestible. Good source of protein include meat from poultry, beef, lamb or pork, eggs, soy bean and cereals ingredients. A mix of ingredients can improve the overall quality of the protein in the diet.
Carbohydrates are not essential for adult dogs but are excellent as a means of supplying energy to a growing pup. Also provides benefits to the digestive system.
Typical carbo includes corn, wheat, rice and potato. If well ground and cooked, these items are easily digestible.
Fats are a concentrated source of energy to meet the demands of growth. Oils and fats provide essential fatty acids which promote healthy skin and hair coat and make food more palatable.
Dietry fats are provided by refined animal fats (eg lard) and vegetable oils.
Calcium is essential but it has a minimum and a maximum and oversupply can also cause developmental problems in puppies and dogs.
Very young puppies should not be given straight dry food. The dry food should be softened with water or a canned food equivallent provided.

[SARATARA]

Michael- Why did you take Taylor off his somewhat raw diet?

Also, I agree with Peggy that it is ok for puppies not to eat puppy formulated food. Again, Michael what makes you such an expert. Care to share any sources yet?

[flutterbye]

I apologize for all the ruckus I've caused with this subject. I'm hoping my next question doesn't cause such a commotion. Gonna post it under a new thread in the food forum I think. Thanks for all the advice though. It's getting better now that I've started to give him a few pieces from my hand at first then pouring the rest in his bowl and making him wait till I am ready for him to eat.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

An internationally recognised Pembroke breeder and show conformation judge says that many Corgis in the USA and in some other places are not endeared with strong bone and have other debilitating factors - she thinks it is because too many Corgi puppies in the USA etc come off puppy food too soon.

Okay, as one who is in the unique position of having seen corgis from Michael's internationally recognised Pembroke breeder and show conformation judge source and have seen them in the flesh and watched them being shown; met them ringside and talked with their owners; I can without prejudice or bias say - they are VERY nice corgis, but American bred ones can hold their own quality wise with them.

Nor is Michael is not the only one who can "name drop" about consulting with internationally recognised Pembroke breeders and show conformation judges; several of us on the forum know people to whom this description applies. We attend seminars given by them and with them. They mentor us and we have corgis from them as well. We also call them friend.

Debbie