The ultimate meal

[Michael Romanos]

I have just completed an article titled: Food for thought - the best for your dog's good life.

The artilce is based on an interview I completed only this morning with Dr Nick Cave, a world class small animal/dog nutrition specialist and lecturer attached to Massey University in New Zealand.

I tried to cut through all the scientific jargon and get right down toi the hub of the question : what is the best meal I can give my dog. So the article is short and to the point and has certainly altered some of my thoughts and some of the things I have taken in from others over the years.

If anyone would like an email version of the article, please send me an email to mjromanos@hotmail.com

I thank KatC for supplying me with a photo that might be used for the magazines the article will appear in (and I'll give her a photo credit) and to Eri who provided Go Corgi with a list of no-go food items for dogs which added a few to the list I had already made. And thanks to Go Corgi members in general for yet another GoCorgi inspired article - especially Debbie Campbell.

If anyone has a photo of their Corgi ( or would like to do a photo) eating from their food bowl) please email to me on mjromanos@paradise.net.nz It will need to be a sharp quality pic and sent at 300 pixels.

[CorgiMum]

Michael, could you post a link so that we could all read it here? It sounds like an article that should be pinned in the health forum.

[Michael Romanos]

Can't do that because the article is copyrighted.

But what I can do is give a brief summary at some stage in the near future.

[Michael Romanos]

There has been a little response shown but not eniough for such a weighty and vitally important subject.
I look forward to members contacting me for an emailed copy.

[corgimom]

Michael,

I am not addressing the Science Hill JD that you suggested Marshy put Dexter on, but addressing the statement you made in the Dexter thread about the Doctor saying that Hills products is the number one best overall food for dogs. I am assuming he was making a general statement about all the different Hills food available, which many can be found in the local supermarket, as well as the vets office. I think the majority of vets say this and recommend Science Hill because they all seem to stock the Hills Food in their practice and of course, if they promote and sell it, they are making a profit.

The veterinary Science Hill prescription foods may, at times, be appropriate in instances such as Dexters and other situations, but as for the regular Science Hill foods, I would not feed that to my pets; most have fillers/Corn and By products. I have also seen where some of the Veterinarian prescription foods have Corn as their first ingredient followed by Chicken by products.

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1164640066859

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1164657225640

Here are a couple of links to the Science Hill Foods. Not all of them, but the majority have Corn and By products as their main ingredients. I wonder why they don't improve on that and am wondering why the Doctor you interviewed feels that Corn and by- products in the Hills food would make it the best all around food for dogs?

[Michael Romanos]

Linda - my article might provoke a lot of comment or thought and if it does, that's great - but I don't intend in the near future at least, to follow up with it or 'grill' the specialist who I interviewed on any reactions. What one person tells you is no good another will say that its ok and ever beneficial, and there are degrees of intake. By this I mean, that if one uses onions as an example, half a medium size onion is unlikely to cause any adversity to a dog, but a whole onion might or might not cause a toxic reaction and an onion a day might set your dog down the slippery slope to illness. I can only assume that a world class dog nutritionist would not recommend a product if that product contained something which is going to harm a normal and hitherto healthy dog. And neither is the international organisation which subjects dog food products to rigorous testing and analysing.

[darci]

Science diet per say isnt going to harm your pet, is it optimal nutrition for your dog ? My honest opinion is no. Now with that said I am no expert in nutrition I have however researched this subject to the endth degree over the last 3 yrs.

Once upon a time science diet did serve a purpose for the RX diets, and their have been dogs that have done better on their diets. But the canine nutrition world has come a long way baby,and I feel there are far better diets available for our pets as well as homecooked in so many situations. If I were in need of assistance with a special diet I would consult a holistic vet certified in canine nutrition and they along with my vet would advise me.

As far as the regular Science diet line, it wont kill your pet, but will your pet live a longer life with better nutition ? have less dentals ? less obesity ?
you do the research.

[Chip's Mom]

I am not a dog food expert by any means but if I am going to pay top dollar for the dog food I put in front of Chip, I want the first and main ingredient to be meat as that is what I am paying for. I always thought Science Diet was the best since vet's recommend and sell it but after trying it with Chip and reading the label, I have changed my mind. I am not questionning the expert's opinion - I am just stating my own.

[Dillydoodle]

Michael Romanos stated "Dillydoodle - you're being very unfair. The guy who said Hill's dog food products are the best is a world class small animal/ dog nutritionist based in a University in NZ and completely independent from any salesmen or sales pitch.
Then the vet who suggested gluscosamine for Dexter said that Dex should have the stuff either as a supplement or in the dog food called Hills JD - because Hills JD contains sufficient quantities of gluscosamine. You just jumped on a bandwagon. And I suppose you don't work for Hills but for a rival organisation.
Maybe you should read the article I have produced re The Ultimate Meal thread."

Here I am on the appropriate thread to continue this. I just wanted to assure you, Michael, I work for my mortage broker husband, i do not work in any part for any pet food organization. I just did my research on line, reading books, talking to the vets that don't buy into the whole Hills Science Diet is the best theory that has been pumped into their heads. I used to be a proponent for Hills Science diet 14 yrs ago, I thought their food was the best. This is all i fed my cats. At that time, they may have been the best when compared to the supermarket sugar-laden by product filled dog and cat "food" of the day. When My eldest cat developed Diabetes it set me off on a mission to learn about what is in pet foods and how their body's use the components of the food. HIlls science has corn meal as first ingredient in their cat foods too- Cat's have a differently functioning pancreas than dogs and humans, their pancreas cannot process carbohydrates effectively and over time, the over worked pancreas eventually craps out, and when that happens the pancreas no longer makes its own insulin and the blood sugar skyrockets. Why would a top company that call themselves SCIENCE feed a product to a cat that is scientifically proven to cause harm? Regarding my comments about their dog foods- I dont think i was being unfair, only stating what is contained in the hills science diet. If the JD has good amounts of glucosamine that is great, but it doesnt change the fact that the basic food to which that glucosamine was added is far from optimal- Corn meal, peanut hulls, meat by-product meal, chicken liver FLAVORING ( which by the way- in pet foods can often be the words used to hide Monosodium Glutamate -MSG- which is far from healthy for people or animals.) I am not trying to fight with anyone here, just please, read up on canine nutrition....and if you can afford to feed the HIlls science diet food you can certainly afford to feed some of the other healthier all natural choices... doesn't your pup deserve that? IF Glucosamine is needed for joint health, then buy it separately and add it to their food yourself, that is what i have done. If you buy it in a large size container, the overall cost really becomes quite effective.
Emilie

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Linda - my article might provoke a lot of comment or thought and if it does, that's great - but I don't intend in the near future at least, to follow up with it or 'grill' the specialist who I interviewed on any reactions. What one person tells you is no good another will say that its ok and ever beneficial, and there are degrees of intake. By this I mean, that if one uses onions as an example, half a medium size onion is unlikely to cause any adversity to a dog, but a whole onion might or might not cause a toxic reaction and an onion a day might set your dog down the slippery slope to illness. I can only assume that a world class dog nutritionist would not recommend a product if that product contained something which is going to harm a normal and hitherto healthy dog. And neither is the international organisation which subjects dog food products to rigorous testing and analysing.

If I were interviewing someone who said that Hills was the best all around food for my pet, I would want to know why and what ingredients are in the food and why they feel those ingredients are beneficial for optimum health. I guess I would ask these questions in the first interview, and then a follow-up would not be necessary.

I was hoping this info would be in your article, but I am still waiting to receive it, and I hope you intend to send it since I requested.

I am not knocking all the RX foods - as Darci has mentioned, I know there are situations that dogs/cats may get better on them. But I do agree with her statement in the other thread, "Dexter's", that even Royal Canin RX foods are better. The general overall selection of the Hills foods and what is in them, and what they are lacking, is why I don't have my pets on their food.


While 1/2 an onion might not make my dog ill, I don't intend to feed him that 1/2 onion on a daily basis. A product such as the Hills brand food or others, May in a lot of cases, be the dogs primary food, fed to the dog every day. So if it is something being given to a dog/cat, on a daily basis then one(such as me) wants to feel that what I am giving my pet is a healthy nutritious food that may help him live a longer life. I don't see Corn/filler, or by-products as something I want to feed my pet and I do think that there are profits to be made by all the vets that promote it.

If someone had to write a persuasive paper for a teacher as to why they should buy a product, just "saying so" would not cut it. The teacher would want facts/data and reasons why she should get that product over the others, not just a statement saying it is the best.

[Dillydoodle]

The onion example is actually good, see onion has a CUMULATIVE effect on dogs and cats. while a little bit may not kill your dog, eating a little each and every day builds up in their system and can cause death. THe same way a little bit of Hills Science diet dry cat food for misty didnt give her Diabetes on the first day, it took 10 yrs of constant daily feeding...but had i been feeding her a product with no grains in it, a high protein and low carb food that cats need to be eating, she never would have become diabetic in the first place.
Emilie

[darci]

Great post Emilie and Linda.
I found them a very interesting read.