Innova

[Dillydoodle]

he not only gained about 30 lbs but his cholesterol went up drastically and they were concerned about the deterioration of his overall health including his heart...

Em

[Peggy]

Where can I find a list of AAFCO approved foods?

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Debbie - I think McDonalds is a killer. But thanks for being party to its existence.
Until a better barometer turns up, I will 'harp' about AAFCO - and so will Dr Cave. And AAFCO should be a more important American institution to dog owners than is McDonalds.
The average dog owner is unable to read ingredience lablels on dog food correctly.

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Debbie - I think McDonalds is a killer. But thanks for being party to its existence.
Until a better barometer turns up, I will 'harp' about AAFCO - and so will Dr Cave. And AAFCO should be a more important American institution to dog owners than is McDonalds.
The average dog owner is unable to read ingredience lablels on dog food correctly.

But Michael, they offer salads, bottled water and milk for strong bones At least at McDonalds, I can peel off the bun and eat a beef or chicken patty; with some of the dog food that the AAFCO Substantiates as nutritious , it's main ingredients consists of corn, by-products corn gluten, and wheat middlings.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Debbie - I think McDonalds is a killer. But thanks for being party to its existence.

Actually I think the world owes a lot to McDonald's - McDonald's, Levis and Walkman's all contributed to the fall of the Berlin Wall, but I digress and swerve way off topic.

Until a better barometer turns up, I will 'harp' about AAFCO - and so will Dr Cave.

I would expect nothing less from you. However, did not Dr. Cave admit there were excellent foods not AAFCO? which IS one point. In the American market at least, there are many dog food manufacturers which have standards above and beyond what is required by the AAFCO; foods which you apparently would dismiss.

And AAFCO should be a more important American institution to dog owners than is McDonalds.

Well I know of a few corgis that would beg (and I mean literally ) about the importance of McDonald's as an institution, especially when it comes to Mickey D french fries. There is actually a corgi ceremony involving McDonald's french fries, but again I digress. Allow me to try to connect the dots one more time for you. Some the foods that ARE AAFCO approved are of the same quality diet for one's dog as a human eating fast foods 3 times a day every day. They may meet nutritional requirements, but the preservatives and additives, dyes and chemicals along with the ingredient list, I seriously doubt you would feed them to Taylor given the care you take with his diet.

The average dog owner is unable to read ingredience lablels on dog food correctly.

Not only is this insulting to the numerous list members who have shared their research into foods, it also shows gross underestimation of dog owners today.

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Debbie - I'm sure you put your foot in it. I said average. Whom are you referring to as average, apart from me.

I'll also say this one more time: AAFCO sets minimum standards and also ensures that food that they approve does not contain substances which are adverse to the well being of dogs.

AAFCO would like to know from you which foods that they have approved endanger a dog's health short term or long term. I can supply you with details of whom to forward your information to.

Dr Cave was a pain to tell me exactly what i have tried to relay to you and others that AAFCO is the only recognised world authority on minimum standards of food for dogs that contains all the items that gives a dog a complete and balanced diet. Some of the producers who do not subject their products to AAFCO scrutiny may have products that at least match the minimum standards of AAFCO. The average dog owner would probably not be able or bothered to analyse these in comparison to AAFCO approved food.

Linda - I have gone over the corn-scare previously. According to AAFCO, corn meal as found in Hills is absolutely fine. It is corn oil which contains too much fat and given in large quantities to dogs could be harmful. AAFCO would like to know from you what dog foods that has an AAFCO approval, contains excessive amounts of corn oil. corn meal does not contain corn oil.

[Dillydoodle]

Michael,
would do you feed Taylor Hills Science diet? I think not... becuase YOU know that it is not the highest quality food out there.

AAFCO has approved foods like kibble and bits, would you feed Taylor that? It would be like feeding a kid twinkies all day, everyday...It is CRAP!

Many of us go to great lengths to feed our dogs good quality foods, and many people are reading labels. If an organization like that AAFCO actually gave a crap about the foods they were stamping their approval on, we could use that as a guide, but the reality is that they are putting their seal of approval on low quality foods. Why are their standards so low?

Maybe a dog can survive on Kibbles and bits, but they will not have as long or healthy a life as they could on a food with higher quality ingredients , the same as a person can survive on mcdonalds foods but not be as healthy or long lived as someone who tries to make smarter food choices and eat unprocessed foods, minus the chemicals, additives, dyes and added fats and sugars...

As for the average person not reading labels or knowing about what is quality, first off i would say that most people are not as uneducated as you might think about nutrition and reading labels and secondly if they were as "average" as you seem to think, then wouldnt the purpose of having a forum such as this, to help educate people to what IS quality and good for their dogs rather than telling people to go find a bag of whatever as long as it has an AAFCO approval on it?

Emilie

[corgimom]

Michael,


What is it about the ingredients in Science Hill that Dr. Cave thinks puts it above the rest in regards to it being the best for our pets? Is there an article written by him that you could direct me to that can explain it? Also, what Science Hill kibble are you feeding Taylor now?

[milles2]

OK.... A break in the action! I'm feeling a little silly this morning so I am going to throw this out:

"Jane, you ignorant slut......"

"Dan, you male chauvenist pig...."

We should get Jane Curtain and Dan Akroyd to do a video of this thread! Sorry if non Saturday Night Live fans don't get the joke!

And while I'm feeling silly..... My two don't "get the point" to McDonalds French fries. A burger, they love but could care less about french fries. I have totally spoiled Tucker, anytime we go thru a toll booth on the highway and stop to get a ticket or pay a toll he thinks he's getting a hamburger.

OK..... break over.... Round 4 can begin now!

[ColColt]

We should get Jane Curtain and Dan Akroyd to do a video of this thread! Sorry if non Saturday Night Live fans don't get the joke!

Well, that's ok for me...for they are, two wild and crazy guys!!

[Chip's Mom]

Susan - You scared me to death when I first read that, I thought you were talking about our Jane. Lord have Mercy.

Now back to the thread. I just bought a small bag of Natural Balance for Dale and it says it is for all ages so Chip can eat it too and not feel left out. I don't want my best boy to get his lil feelings hurt. So what do you all think. Chip is on a kick to want to eat what the puppy eats and they are learning to eat together which is interesting but that is another thread.

[milles2]

Sorry! Just a little SNL humor!

[Chip's Mom]

That is ok - That is what I get for going to bed at 10:00 every night. I miss out on stuff and don't have a clue what people are talking about.

[Jespah]

Holy cow - I love these threads, it's better than watching mud wrestling, or parlimentarians in Korea beating each other up, or the first 6 Rocky movies!!!!

Make some popcorn, kickback and let if fly!!!

Seriously though, excellent debate - I'm an average pet owner and I've researched my pets food to the 9th degree and am doing what I think is the best I can for them. Didn't even know what AAFCO was until this hotbed of activity started - I don't let organizations determine what I feed myself or pets - I learn about nutrition and read labels - and sprinkle in a little common sense too.

(Loved the SNL input there Susan - totally got it!!!!!!)

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Debbie - I'm sure you put your foot in it. I said average. Whom are you referring to as average, apart from me.

I put my foot in nothing. And yes, you are representative of average pet owners today - the thought you've given to diet and the activities you do with Taylor - most pet owners today are involved in or have been involved in training classes, many compete in various venues, many do therapy type visits. Then there are some who's dogs have the most important job of all - cherished friend and pet of their entire family. So yep, I'd say you are representative of average pet owners today.

I'll also say this one more time: AAFCO sets minimum standards and also ensures that food that they approve does not contain substances which are adverse to the well being of dogs.

Minimum being the operative word. This quote from an AAFCO panel expert, Quinton Rogers, DVM, PhD I believe supports the point many of us have been trying to get across: "These improved procedures do not represent a perfect solution for nutrition of the individual animal, however. In the words of Quinton Rogers, DVM, PhD, one of the AAFCO panel experts, “although the AAFCO profiles are better than nothing, they provide false securities. I don't know of any studies showing their adequacies and inadequacies.� Rogers also states that some of the foods which pass AAFCO feeding trials are actually inadequate for long term nutrition, but there is no way of knowing which foods these are under present regulations (Smith, 1993) "
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00001.htm

AAFCO would like to know from you which foods that they have approved endanger a dog's health short term or long term. I can supply you with details of whom to forward your information to.

Thank you very much, but I am capable of finding the information myself. Had I fed Hills or Eukanuba or a couple of others to my foster Jasmine she would have been dead today instead of sporting a plush and full fluffy coat. She was allergic to every ingredient in them.

Dr Cave was a pain to tell me exactly what i have tried to relay to you and others that AAFCO is the only recognised world authority on minimum standards of food for dogs that contains all the items that gives a dog a complete and balanced diet. Some of the producers who do not subject their products to AAFCO scrutiny may have products that at least match the minimum standards of AAFCO. The average dog owner would probably not be able or bothered to analyse these in comparison to AAFCO approved food.

I believe using the sample of average dog owners here, they certainly do have the ability and the initiative to read and compare labels. Again, lets focus on the operative words MINIMUM requirements and that AAFCO panelists acknowledge the sense of false security the "seal of approval" can cause.

Linda - I have gone over the corn-scare previously. According to AAFCO, corn meal as found in Hills is absolutely fine.

Unless a dog is allergic to corn and then it can be disastrous to a dog's diet and health. Corn is the most common food allergy found in dogs.

Debbie