When Should You Switch Your Puppy TO Adult Food?

[woogiebear]

Ok...now you guys have all scared the hell out of me. I have probably been feeding Spoilt and Rotten incorrectly and for some time now causing possible damage to thier bone structure? I am not a breeder nor am I a show person. I just love my babies and spoil them rotten (hence thier names). Apparently I need to change the dry food as well now even though they like it so much. Neither of them are overweight in the slightest. Although Spoilt is so much larger than Rotten as a whole. Everyone thinks Rotten is the younger one. Here I thought I was feeding them correctly and all along I was not. Kind of makes me feel like I wasted my time giving them extra calcium when they were younger. I have all ideas that Spoilt will have problems later, being a bluey and hence more suseptible to genetic malfunctions but now it seems I have compounded that possibility with incorrect feeding.

[glencorgi]

Okay, chill out and take a breath. You haven't "broken" your corgi boys. You didn't have any frequent limping when they were younger did you? Pano is like growing pains and exhibits in random limping. They are at good weights and coats are healthy right? They're going to be okay. Remember, I was the one who did say there was no universal consensus on feeding or when to switch. IF the boys like the puppy version of whatever brand you are feeding, then get a small bag of the adult and begin switching them over now - isn't going to hurt them. There is no evidence that I know of that indicates Spoilt will be more suceptible to genetic "malfunctions" or health issues because he is a bluie. I have 12 year old bluie here now that is in as good of shape or better than some of her younger counterparts. Don't anticipate problems based on his color.

As far as the extra calcium, I doubt if there is any harm there either. NOW, I will say that the cavalier way calcium supplements are recommended by some does give me a fright. Too much calcium can definitely cause problems and that I would defer to veterinarian supervision only. Supplementing calcium via multi-vitamin supplements and dairy products <IMHO> is a much safer route to go and one I utilise.

Debbie

[woogiebear]

I gave them calcium when they were younger prompted by Spoilt's failure of ears coming up. His ears came up much later then most other Corgi's. I did give them calcium for awhile but quit it back in the middle of summer some time. Yes, they are healthy weights and thier coats are great. I was told that with Spoilt being a bluey that it was caused by a recessive gene in his liniage somewhere and to be on the lookout for any abnormalties. The Vet has not noticed anything wrong with him when I took him for his puppy exams however, I have noticed that occassionally his back end *pops* or makes a popping noise. It does not happen that often, and it does not interfere with him running pell mell throughout the house. I also don't think he necessarily sees as good as he could. He has those bright ice blue eyes but will often bark at the other side of the house towards my husband (when he is crossing the room etc.) until Scott gets closer to him and he realizes it is daddy. Shadows cause him to startle as well. Or large shapes he can't quite make out. Such as the large garbage cans on the side of the street on garbage day. He barks at them. I am wondering if he is not seeing well OR if he is a corgi/poultry mix. I guess since the vet sees nothing wrong when I bring these up to him I may just be LOOKING for something. Rotten is given to bouts of extreme wheezing. Again, vet said nothing was wrong. But as far as limping, acting like they are exhibiting signs of pain, no. And I regularly massage thier entire bodies so I am sure if they had pain somewhere they would have let me know during one of these massages. Rotten especially loves the all over body massage. He will just fall plum asleep right away. Spoilt perfers certain areas like the top of his head and his chest right where that chest bone is. He is a little touchy towards his behind but will eventually allow it.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by woogiebear

I gave them calcium when they were younger prompted by Spoilt's failure of ears coming up. His ears came up much later then most other Corgi's. I did give them calcium for awhile but quit it back in the middle of summer some time.

Not really that much later and taping would have assisted there.

Yes, they are healthy weights and thier coats are great. I was told that with Spoilt being a bluey that it was caused by a recessive gene in his liniage somewhere and to be on the lookout for any abnormalties.

Bluies are the result of autosomal recessive genetics. That means both parents have to be carrying the gene for bluies - same mode of inheritance as fluffies. It is a dilute and lightens the the pigment (eye liner, nose) causing it to be either chocolate or grey in color and causes a dusty cast (bluish) to the coat. Bluie, the girl I have here, is healthy as a horse and the only "issues" I notice with her is a sensitivity to bright sun sometimes. (No black eyeliner to absorb the rays.) Were there any specific abnormalities you were advised to look out for? Given the experience I have had with Bluie and others that I have known of, no one has reported any color related issues/abnormalities in health at least.

The Vet has not noticed anything wrong with him when I took him for his puppy exams however, I have noticed that occassionally his back end *pops* or makes a popping noise. It does not happen that often, and it does not interfere with him running pell mell throughout the house.

That wouldn't be related to his color.

I also don't think he necessarily sees as good as he could. He has those bright ice blue eyes but will often bark at the other side of the house towards my husband (when he is crossing the room etc.) until Scott gets closer to him and he realizes it is daddy. Shadows cause him to startle as well. Or large shapes he can't quite make out. Such as the large garbage cans on the side of the street on garbage day. He barks at them. I am wondering if he is not seeing well OR if he is a corgi/poultry mix.

Blue eyes are not related to him being a bluie. Blue eyes in Pems (and in other colors of Cardigans besides blue merles) are inherited via double recessives. It is not a matter of one copy of each gene coming from each parent, more involved than that. He could have normal coloring and with his genetic background, still have the blue eye(s). IF you are concerned about his eyes, then find a AVCO vet and have a CERF exam done on his eyes. (Your regular vet should be able to recommend one.)

I guess since the vet sees nothing wrong when I bring these up to him I may just be LOOKING for something. Rotten is given to bouts of extreme wheezing. Again, vet said nothing was wrong.

Being conscientious and aware is fine, just don't go looking for problems if you can help it. Wheezing as in reverse sneezing? Some corgis are just more prone to it than others and he may outgrow it a bit as he ages.

The puppies sound fine, normal and healthy.

Debbie

[woogiebear]

Thank you for your input! Your comments are quite helpful!

We did try taping Spoilt's ears (poor baby....looked like a mutant!) and eventually they did come up. And boy did they!! Those suckers are HA-YOOGE!

He does have liner around the eyes but his coat has that strange greyish tint to it. His litter mate was a fluffy. These were the only two of the litter that were not normal coloring etc. I remember talking to someone here once that told me about his eyes, saying that they may be slightly sensitive to light but that his eyes being blue was not why they called him a bluey. So I knew that much.

The only thing I was told to look for was the hip dysplasia which I was told was unfortunatly common in this breed. The breeder would not give me a written guarantee on Spoilt though as she did with Rotten because she herself had no knowledge specifically with issues that may or may not occur with Blueys. She had not had any before and she said she knew they were that color due to the recessive gene, but did not know if it resulted in other abnormalties. (I didn't care about the guarantee really, he was a beautiful pup and even if something were wrong with him I would not give him back.)

I also knew the popping in his hind quarters would not be related to his coloring but as I said above, the hip dysplasia thing had crossed my mind when I heard it. But again, he does not act like it is painful or anything. It certainly is not slowing him down!

Rotten's wheezing .... I guess you could say backwards sneezing. It normally will happen when he is lying on his back and it is like he can't catch his breath or something. Big wheezing noises. I will turn him over and it is like he catches his breath after a bit. He also has one weepy eye. Don't know why it weeps, just does. He was a year old last October so maybe he will still grow out of it.

I like coming to this site because there is just so much to learn here really. I have checked with my vets about these issues and they ascertain that the boys are fine. I think I keep a close eye on them too because of losing my MilkDud. (I posted in the rainbow section about losing him.) I guess I am worried of losing these little fellas too. Technically Rotten is mine and Spoilt is my husbands....but they LUV DA MOMMY! Scott just tells everyone that Spoilt is SUPPOSED to be his, but they both really belong to me!

[Mvons]

What is in Pet Food Has a reprint from Animal Protection Institute® on what is in pet food. I found it very informative.

"Up to 20% of the nutritional value of other grains can escape digestion. The availability of nutrients for wheat, beans, and oats is poor. The nutrients in potatoes and corn are far less available than those in rice."

Gee that is different than what the dog food that have added oatmeal says on their bag. I'm so lucky that my dog had Sensible Choice for years before they got bought out by Royal Canin and now I wonder if their quality is affected by the change in ownership.

And to think growing up years ago our doxie ate gainsburger! She only ate 1/2 one each night and had good health. But there are so many more chemicals in our food supply (1960 vs 1969 450 more) and livestock because of what they eat now. I just may have to see if we can afford the organic dog food for our future dog if I can find one with one protein and one grain. Sorry I don't like the fish because of how my last one reacted.

Woogiebear we are all learning. I will consider changing from puppy food sooner than I did on my last dog.

"The National Research Council (NRC) of the Academy of Sciences set the nutritional standards for pet food that were used by the pet food industry until the late 1980s. The NRC standards, which still exist and are being revised as of 2001, were based on purified diets, and required feeding trials for pet foods claimed to be "complete" and "balanced." The pet food industry found the feeding trials too restrictive and expensive, so AAFCO designed an alternate procedure for claiming the nutritional adequacy of pet food, by testing the food for compliance with "Nutrient Profiles." AAFCO also created "expert committees" for canine and feline nutrition, which developed separate canine and feline standards. While feeding trials can still be done, a standard chemical analysis may be also be used to determine if a food meets the profiles. Chemical analysis, however, does not address the palatability, digestibility, or biological availability of nutrients in pet food. Thus it is unreliable for determining whether a food will provide an animal with sufficient nutrients."

This statement from the website makes me not care what the AAFCO says.

Merrie

[Michael Romanos]

Merrie - I had a good chat with a leading Mastiff (English) breeder in New Zealand with a great reputation and who only recently sent three Mastiff puppies to new owners in the USA. This breeder also runs boarding kennels.
She says that normally she would feed a Mastiff (English) adult food from aged 2 years, puppy food up to age 12 months and junior food inbetween. She buys Royal Canin (for her Mastiffs and for the boarders at her kennels) which has a junior feed stage among its products. She says if jumior food is not available through using other products, she would probably compromise between puppy and adult ie 16 - 18 months before switching over. So I don't think vets I have spoken to nor the product manufacturers of leading international brands are out of kilter at all.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Prince

hi everyone i was wondering when i should switch my 7 month old pembroke PRINCE to adult food? i have read that they should be on puppy food up to a year old and i have heard people weaning their puppies off puppy food when they are four months old.

I recommend now.

Actually I don't feed my puppies a puppy formula at all. My last two litters were raised on an adult maintence formula food. The same thing my adult dogs ate. They did just fine, grew normally, have as much or more bone substance than any other litter I bred, no problems at all.

In fact many reputable (meaning mostly show) breeders are not feeding puppy foods any more. It's been found that it's not needed. As Debbie said, the different formulas are a marketing ploy, NOT necessary for the different stages of life. All stages can be fed a good adult manintece formula.

Brands I can recommend off the top of my head are Innova, California Natural, Eagle Pack, Canidae, Wysong, Solid Gold, and Nature's Variety.

If you are going to by a grocery store brand, then Purina ONE is ok, and the Lassie brand seems to be a pretty good one for a grocery store brand.

I also agree that there is no "universal" method or recommendation for feeding dogs.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Mvons

They seem to be a governing agency to watchdog over what goes into feed. I don't see research on each breed to say what should be consumed for a puppy until how long. This is similar to the FDA for humans. It would be like saying that the RDA minimums is what humans should consume instead of realizing people are different and most need more than the minimums.

Exactly!!!

What I value is the breeders knowledge who SEE what happens when puppy food is used too long or problems with the content. I value the opinion of the breeder in Utah on this forum and suggest the originator of this thread do a search on feed or read the thread "what do you feed your dog" to see the variety of opinions on this forum that there is normally.

Thank you very much for the compliment!

Peggy

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Shge says that normally she would feed a Mastiff (English) adult food at 2 years, puppy food up to 12 months and junior food inbetween. She buys Royal Canin (for her Mastiffs and for the boarders at her kennels) which has a junior feed stage among its products.

What is the protein levels in these foods?

Debbie

[ZdogZ]

Originally Posted by taflar

If you are going to by a grocery store brand, then Purina ONE is ok, and the Lassie brand seems to be a pretty good one for a grocery store brand. Peggy<