Recent "for sale" thread

[glencorgi]

First, and this is off-topic for the rest of this thread. A check on the spelling of Cardigan might be in order for the banner that comes up for GoCorgi. <@Corgi - Your #1 Pembroke & Caridgan Welsh Cor...> is what comes up on my homepage for the site.

Now for the point of my post. It may be because it is Monday and last week was a real rough one rescue wise. I had to euthanize a four year old boy returned to us for behavioral issues of biting. 95% of the time he was a delightful, active, loving and wonderful corgi, 5% of the time there was a level of unpredictability in which he would turn, attack and bite. I saw the scars on his former owner's arms and hands and the scenarios she described flashed me back to an evening in my kitchen when I was attacked by a foster. That was not a high point. Following that, we took in four new fosters, all under three years of age. Two were from a shelter. One was found as a stray and turned out to be a mix, but no mistaking there is corgi there and I have no doubts he was sold to someone as a corgi. He's a wild teenager, but is catching on quickly, really wants to please, but has no frame of reference or context of anything ever being asked of him. The second one from the same shelter is a year old as well; his family moving and they stated they didn't want to bother taking him with them as they can easily pick up another one whenever they get to where they are moving. The third is a 20 month old female who was not of the temperament to be living in a household of young active children. Parents failed to put discipline and structure into the childrens' lives, this corgi tried (she's one that is going to relish quiet order) and when unsuccessful she acted out with compulsive obssessive behaviors. She was very much loved and adored by the adults, but this was a breeder who did a very poor job of matching the right puppy for the home resulting in unhappy corgi and unhappy owners, but the breeder got her money. The fourth is a pet shop purchased puppy and seems like a really neat little guy. Problem here was again children and dog getting along and lack of parental structure and discipline. So that was my week.

Now in the thread Promote GoCorgi we have these concerns expressed:

Originally Posted by Clara'sStarryStarryNight

<snipped> As long as this forum stays clear of breeding and selling and is a positive place for corgi discussion... I will promote all over the place LOL

Which the GCAdmin addressed with this:

Originally Posted by GC Admin

Sure, that would be a great idea as a link.

And we promise to keep this place a positive place for corgi discussion. That is our main goal. The breeding and classifieds sections were initially created for the reputable corgi breeders out there. It would have been strictly moderated and only select few would have been able to hold discussions there. But since the feedback for the sections were so negative, we just decided to remove them all together. I think if we allowed access only for reputable breeders to chat with other reputable breeders, it could work.

The fallacy here is that reputable breeders would not be using a forum such as this for breeding discussions. Those are done on the show lists, at shows, in club meetings, via private e-mails, etc.

This was taken further in this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GC Admin

The breeding and classifieds sections were initially created for the reputable corgi breeders

Originally Posted by CORGI

Admin-
Thanks for removing the sections.
Classified advertising is not necessary for or welcomed by reputable breeders. Most are club members and puppies are sold by referral. Homes are screened and carefully selected. Classified ads are frowned upon. There was quite a fuss when the AKC added a classified section to their web page. The AKC decided to follow through with the classifieds regardless of the outcry against it, but did add the parent clubs as the first and best source for finding a breeder. Since reputable breeders do not advertise in classifies, that left only the back yard types on AKC’s site. A few good breeders decided to put ads there, not to sell puppies because most of these breeders already have waiting lists, but to educate and show the difference in what they do verses others do/don’t do as far as testing, titles, quality of breeding animals etc. These ads are not free and the reputable breeders were/are shelling out their own money in an effort to educate the general public. That is why I feel strongly that reputable breeder have enough on their plates in this regard and don’t need to monitor yet another site where puppies are being sold indiscriminately.

Again, I say thank you for listening and making the right decision. I really do appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GC Admin

It would have been strictly moderated and only select few would have been able to hold discussions there.


I don’t know how you would determine these select few and what the guidelines for topics would be. If there was an interest in this avenue for selling, breeding or stud service discussions, I guarantee it would have been the unethical types who would be going for it simply for the free ads and free advice. Reputable breeders generally do not discuss these types of things in public forums unless it is in the interest of education.

Could you explain strictly monitored to me as it applies to this board?
I’m not trying to be a smarta$$ with the question. For instance Corgi-L is what I call strictly moderated. All posts must be read and approved by a moderator one by one before going to the list. Showpem-L is moderated differently. Posts go directly on the list and moderators can remove the post after the fact or block a person from posting further if they break the rules. You can’t un-ring a bell though. Once that post, say advertising pups for sale or stud service, has been posted and read by a few or many, depending on when it is caught by the mods, the bell has been rung so to speak. The latter I would consider to be not strictly, but moderately moderated, if that makes sense.
How specifically will moderating be done in this forum and by whom?
As opposed to the above boards, this one allows for anonymity. I myself have chosen to remain anonymous because I can and because the admin(s) are anonymous. I feel that if anonymity is not allowed, it lends more credibility to the site and the posts. From what I have seen so far, I would consider this one to be lightly moderated. A step above corgis.com, which is un-moderated, with a different layout. One that people seem to prefer.

What I take away from the above discussion is that "puppies for sale," "stud wanted" - (oh yes and last week there was a thread on another list in response to someone looking for a "one-night stand" for her tri b*tch), or "looking for a female to breed to" are not appropriate topics for this forum.

There are wonderful people here. People who have done a lot of research to make their corgis' life the best they can and they happily share that information. Substantive questions are asked and the same can be said of discussions that follow. There's silliness and off-topics mixed in, good natured teasing and humor. Brags are celebrated and cheered; sad times are met with support. I can think of only one other list where this quality of corgi community has been evident (and there are many days I miss the standards found here that are showing decline on the other list). I would really hate to see GoCorgi degrade into what corgis.com was at one time - nothing more than a place to buy, sell or trade puppies, stud services and brood b*tches. Again, I will consider my past week may have jaded my reaction to the "puppies for sale" thread, but sincerely hope this is not the future of this forum.

Debbie

[corgimom]

Deb,


So sad to hear your week was a tough one, especially in regards to the dog
you had to euthanize. and shame on those people for leaving their dog
behind because they were moving, and thinking that they can easily replace
him at their next home destination.

Linda

[darci]

Spot on Deb......

I too was under the impression this forum wasnt for selling.....

[Jeni D]

That is exactly what I thought when I originally read the thread of puppies for sale. There are plenty of other sources that can be used to find a corgi and I don't think this site should be a place for that. I agree that most reputable breeders would never place any sort of want-ad on an on line site.

[CorgiMum]

I am a very new member and was very much dissapointed to see puppies for sale here. I agree with all that has been said regarding the reputable breeders not needing to post here. We were put through a very detailed interview when you bought our first corgi. The breeder asked us more questions than we asked her. And we were on a waiting list for quite a while.

I posted a reply to one such 'for sale' post, asking questions, about them being AKC registered etc, on the open board and in a PM. Neither were answered. That gave ME my answer.

To be perfectly honest, I shyed away from posting here after seeing puppies for sale.

Sadly there are many BYB in our area, but thank goodness, corgis are very rarely in those situations.

Sorry for your awful week. I am not a strong enough person to be as great a help to some dogs as you are, I take my hat off to you.

[Fluffypants]

I was a little taken aback by that thread as well, thinking (as it seems we all do) that responsible breeders let the buyers come to THEM. It's so sad when people get "temporary" dogs, then leave them behind (you would have to pry Jackie's leash from my cold, dead hands! ), or when they get a dog without committing to do the research/work necessary for it. It's like any other relationship . . . you don't want to jump in without knowing what's expected.

Sorry you had a bad week, Deb. I don't know where you get the strength. Hopefully it's nothing but blue skies for awhile now . . .

ps - Jackie sends corgi kisses. She hopes they will cheer you up

[Chip's Mom]

Hey Deb:

So sorry to hear about your week. My heart goes out to you and your little rescues. I wish my home was big enough for one or two more. Especially the one that needs a quiet place. I almost posted a question to the puppies for sale post as I didn't think this was allowed either but I had just told the story of my little orphan pups in the field so didn't want to seem like a hypocrite. Take care and God Bless you. This is a great site and your input makes it even better. This site is all for the love of our Corgis.

[corgimom]

Whenever someone gives up a pet due to moving, it makes no sense to me. We moved 3 times, once from Nebraska to Wisconsin, and all my animals came with me. I would have never considered relinquishing them under any circumstance. I have never understood that excuse unless, of course, someone is going into a nursing home, and has no family willing to take the animal.

Our Humane Society here in town is great(they just built a new one and doubled it size) They offer a service to people who have maybe lost their job or temporarily became homeless, or are maybe going through a divorce. They will take in your pet and care for it for a certain length of time, until you can get back up on your feet so that you can care for the animal again. I don't know if there are a lot of Humane Societies out there that do that, but I think it is a wonderful service.

Our Humane society here in town has "Moving and Allergies" as two of their top reasons why people relinquish their pets.

Linda

[glencorgi]

Thanks everyone for your support, it means a lot and I really appreciate the shoulders to lean on.

The top two reasons I get for turn-ins are moving and incidents with children. I do hear allergies from time to time. One day maybe I'll do a list of the excuses I hear.

Again, thanks for being here.

Debbie

PS: And yes Jackie your kisses helped to make things much better.

[tandemgal]

I could understand the allergy reason if this were someone's 1st dog with a child. Corgi do have an un-ending supply of hair... Our son, Aaron had allergies to so many things including dog dander. He was on shots and I vacumed everyday and made sure his room was a no pet zone. We never thought of giving away our Golden Retriever, we just worked around the problem so we could all enjoy life together. Now that he is older he has somewhat outgrown the allergy and has his own pet, a doby. She is a sweet girl - should have seen his BIG puppy playing with our SHORT puppy - they were so cute together.