An accidental very hard bite

[Bailey's driver]

Lately Bailey has been grabbing the mail as it comes into the house through the mail slot in the front door. My regular mail carrier knows Bailey and knows he does it. I have seen him do it before. I did not see a problem with it. My regular carrier never mentioned a potential problem.

A new carrier put her fingers way into the house with just one letter. Bailey chomped down hard and fast on what he thought was the mail. He let go,but it was too late, the damage was done.
He really hurt her, she was bleeding badly and had to go to the ER. I offered to drive her to the ER but she waited for her supervisor.

I have a friend who has been a postal supervisor and acting Postmaster for years, so I know about what's coming up. Now they tell me they know about it happening once in a while. Even from cats. It's not Baileys fault, it's my fault for not recognizing the possibility of this happening. I would not put my fingers in like that for fear of getting them cut on the mail slot door or a sharp edge. At first that's what I thought happened.

It does not change anything that will happen, but for some reason it makes me upset that the investigator that came later thought Bailey might bite him deliberately. I showed him what happened but I don't think he understands.

Has this happened to anyone else? Or any kind of accidental bite?

[Michael Romanos]

Bailey is innocent but now he has a black mark against his previously good name/reputation. And it is sad and unfair.

Taylor also has kind of blotted his records through the evilness of one of my neighbours who has complained more than once to the animal control of the Upper Hutt City Council and also to the local police, that Taylor has attacked them and intimidated them. Now there is as much chance of Taylor attacking and intimidating any person as there is in Glencorgi or Linda marrying me.

You have installed in Bailey a talent as a mail deliverer - don't discourage him.
But what you can do is gather together a kind of petition with regard to Bailey's behaviour with people and present this to the authorities - just for Bailey's sake if for nothing else.

If any of the matters that Taylor was accused of went any further than they did (they virtually went no where at all) - I would have gathered in many references on his behalf from hundreds of people and a large number of organisations/entities.

[darci]

Oh my Gosh.....

Bless your heart I am so sorry this happend. They can actually refuse to deliver your mail, dont mean to scare you but they take this kind of thing very seriously.

I dont know where you are from, I guess that depends on what will happen next.

Here in Tn the health dept. would contact you for you to show proof of vacination, and still will usually require you to keep Bailey up for 14 days, no outside running free without leash etc. to watch for rabies, even if he's had his rabies shots.

Hopefully it will end there. My best advice is communication with your post master to resolve this, stay in contact with them and keep lines of communication open.

You may want to consider another mode of getting your mail, post office box or an outside mail box.

Maybe someone here has had actuall experience with this, but I wish you luck and will be thinking of you guys.

Please keep us posted on the outcome.

[Fluffypants]

Oh no! I hope that you are able to get this resolved. I thought the same thing as Cindi - maybe a new way to get your mail delivered. You (maybe) could even install a box over the mail slot on the inside of the door, so that the fingers are not accessible to Bailey, even if they come through the slot?

[Bailey's driver]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Bailey is innocent but now he has a black mark against his previously good name/reputation. And it is sad and unfair.

That's it exactly! Your words explain it better than I did.

Originally Posted by darci

Oh my Gosh.....

Bless your heart I am so sorry this happened. They can actually refuse to deliver your mail, don’t mean to scare you but they take this kind of thing very seriously.

I don’t know where you are from, I guess that depends on what will happen next.

Here in Tn the health dept. would contact you for you to show proof of vaccination, and still will usually require you to keep Bailey up for 14 days, no outside running free without leash etc. to watch for rabies, even if he's had his rabies shots.

Hopefully it will end there. My best advice is communication with your post master to resolve this, stay in contact with them and keep lines of communication open.

You may want to consider another mode of getting your mail, post office box or an outside mail box.

Maybe someone here has had actual experience with this, but I wish you luck and will be thinking of you guys.

Please keep us posted on the outcome.

I am in Rhode Island. Many of the Postal procedures apply to the entire USA.
That day I sealed the mail slot and attached a mailbox to the outside of the house. The Post Office will always stop mail delivery everywhere (in the USA, I think) until a change makes a repeat situation impossible, they would not have delivered my mail again without a mailbox, period. I would do the same thing, I think it's sensible.

The same thing will probably happen here about the health department. But the post office may just send a copy of what I gave them. If the post office is satisfied that Bailey is safe they may not go to the Health dept. I already know the worse case scenario of a dog bite and rabies.

All my computer invoices from the vet have all of his vaccination dates and reminders for the next ones printed right on them. I save all the bills so I had one to give to the investigator. I still can give more away or get more easily. Three cheers for computers !!

I already know I pay for the medical expenses of the carrier, and I don't have a problem with it. It's pretty safe to say that she will sue me too. She's a dog lover, but friends and family often talk one into a law suit. So far I am convinced the homeowners insurance will cover it. Time will tell.

[Jespah]

I have not experienced an accidental bite with my dogs but have gone through the situation with two friends. It's so hard,as you are upset that someone has been hurt, yet devastated that something could jeopardize your dog's life and the way they live it.

We have a law in Toronto, that says if a dog bite of any kind,breaks the skin, the dog is issued a muzzle order and must be muzzled and never allowed off-leash when in public again. If there is more than one incident, the dog will be removed from the home and put down. It's very scary, as both of my friends whose dogs nipped people who were running, know that the bites were not done as aggressive attacks, but that doesn't make the dogs any less dangerous.
I find it amazing that someone would be able to sue you for putting their hand into your home and being bitten. We have laws here that don't allow suing for situations like this and many others that you do in the US. You've done the best thing by changing the situation immediately.

I do understand the feeling of having your innocent dog suddenly being a "criminal" for doing something completely innocuous. I'm sure you just felt heartsick.

I hope that everything will turn out okay - please keep us posted.

[Bailey's driver]

Originally Posted by Jespah

I have not experienced an accidental bite with my dogs but have gone through the situation with two friends. It's so hard, as you are upset that someone has been hurt, yet devastated that something could jeopardize your dog's life and the way they live it.

We have a law in Toronto, that says if a dog bite of any kind, breaks the skin, the dog is issued a muzzle order and must be muzzled and never allowed off-leash when in public again. If there is more than one incident, the dog will be removed from the home and put down. It's very scary, as both of my friends whose dogs nipped people who were running, know that the bites were not done as aggressive attacks, but that doesn't make the dogs any less dangerous.
I find it amazing that someone would be able to sue you for putting their hand into your home and being bitten. We have laws here that don't allow suing for situations like this and many others that you do in the US. You've done the best thing by changing the situation immediately.

I do understand the feeling of having your innocent dog suddenly being a "criminal" for doing something completely innocuous. I'm sure you just felt heartsick.

I hope that everything will turn out okay - please keep us posted.

Thanks.

I don't know that a law suit would mean a win. If the case is not likely to be productive a good lawyer will just not take the case. A judge can throw out a frivolous case too, I believe. I guess I'm about to learn more about it.

One other thing that upsets me is, my friend in the post office tells me that even when a dog runs up and bites a carrier deliberately, most dog owners say "my dog does not bite". She knows what she is talking about she has a lot of experience, she even knows all the people involved, including the investigators. That's exactly what I said to the investigator "my dog does not bite". I have zero credibility I think. I know what they say back at the office.

Bailey is friends with a letter carrier for the route right next to mine. We stop and say high to her all the time. She loves animals. She even has her own horses on her own property.
But, the woman who did my route and knew Bailey is gone, and this was going to be the next permanent carrier I believe. Now my house and my dog are marked and remembered as a place that is potentially dangerous. I guess it's true if it was still possible to put your hand in the mail slot, but it's not.

Bailey recognizes the truck that the woman on the next route over uses, and wants to run over and visit the truck to see if she is there. She gives him dog treats. Sometimes it's not her in the truck.
Now Bailey running (well not really, he's on a leash) but anxious to visit is going to be mistaken for aggression sometimes. This happened when I owned a huge Doberman. He wanted to stand up and kiss people on the face when he was a puppy. People were terrified of him.

I'm home all week, I'm going out right now to see if we can find the carrier on the neghboring route to see if she heard anything at the office.

[Chip's Mom]

I feel so bad for you and Bailey. It blows my mind that Bailey is at fault when her hand actually entered your house. Bailey didn't know it was the mail carrier - he thought it was mail. When I got bit by that cat, I had to go to the ER and follow ups with Dr appts and Health Dept to get the box to send it off for rabies testing and do the dirty deed. I did talk to the owners and apologized for my dog killing their cat. I felt so bad but I paid my own Dr bills, medicine, etc. No thoughts of a lawsuit. Some people are just to quick to sue and label our babies.

[Bailey's driver]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

I feel so bad for you and Bailey. It blows my mind that Bailey is at fault when her hand actually entered your house. Bailey didn't know it was the mail carrier - he thought it was mail. When I got bit by that cat, I had to go to the ER and follow ups with Dr appts and Health Dept to get the box to send it off for rabies testing and do the dirty deed. I did talk to the owners and apologized for my dog killing their cat. I felt so bad but I paid my own Dr bills, medicine, etc. No thoughts of a lawsuit. Some people are just to quick to sue and label our babies.

Did the cat have records showing vaccinations? Where do you live?
This happened on the 23rd. I'm posting this on the 28th. Do you know if there was a long time between the bite and the Health dept getting the cat?

[milles2]

I have never updated my homeowners since getting Tucker. I'm making the call this afternoon!

Yikes, what a scary situation. I hope it does not come to law suits and to disciplinary action for poor Baily (and you!).

When I lived in Cleveland my neighbors had a white shepard mix who punched thru their front window screen and aslo through the storm door screen and went after the mailman.

We had the greatest mail man! The first time the dog did bite him, I don't think skin was broken though. The 2nd time the mailman maced the dog. A 3rd time the dog was going berserk at the new screen storm door and the mailman must have thought the dog was about to break thru. He maced the dog thru the screen.

My neighbors were up in arms about it but I remember thinking this guy puts up w/ a lot of crap from that dog and having been bit once, in a position to be bit a 2nd and 3rd time....... I'd have probably done the same.

There were warnings from the Post Office about the dog but I don't think any action was ever taken, particularly from the health department, etc.

I will keep my fingers crossed that this blows over.

Off to call my insurance company.....

Susan

[Chip's Mom]

We live in northeast TN but when the cat bit me, my dog killed the cat when I dropped it. I think the whole story is in one of these threads. Anyway, if I remember right, I contacted the health dept and my husband went down and picked up the box. If the cat hadn't already been dead, I wouldn't have done it. The cat had no vaccinations or visits to a vet and killed rats on a daily basis so it is kind of different circumstances. I only had one deep puncture wound that went to the bone and ended up with blood poisoning. Also, the ER recommended that we do the rabies testing otherwise, I wouldn't have thought of it.

[Bailey's driver]

Originally Posted by milles2@rpi.edu

I have never updated my homeowners since getting Tucker. I'm making the call this afternoon!

Yikes, what a scary situation. I hope it does not come to law suits and to disciplinary action for poor Baily (and you!).

When I lived in Cleveland my neighbors had a white shepard mix who punched thru their front window screen and aslo through the storm door screen and went after the mailman.

We had the greatest mail man! The first time the dog did bite him, I don't think skin was broken though. The 2nd time the mailman maced the dog. A 3rd time the dog was going berserk at the new screen storm door and the mailman must have thought the dog was about to break thru. He maced the dog thru the screen.

My neighbors were up in arms about it but I remember thinking this guy puts up w/ a lot of crap from that dog and having been bit once, in a position to be bit a 2nd and 3rd time....... I'd have probably done the same.

There were warnings from the Post Office about the dog but I don't think any action was ever taken, particularly from the health department, etc.

I will keep my fingers crossed that this blows over.

Off to call my insurance company.....

Susan

Good idea about checking the insurance.

Good thing for all dog owners seeing this to check coverage if they don't know.

Glad you brought it up.

My friend in the Post Office says they now recommend not spraying a dog
(if possible) because the dog will be worse the next time around. It sounds like that's exactly what happened to your neighbor. That happened to a friend's dog. He remembered it for the rest of his life. He always wanted to kill the postman.

When I was very young I made friends with the only dog that ever bit me. He bit my leg as I went by on my bike. I had plenty of time to make friends at that age. No one seem to have that much time anymore. I made sure to introduce Bailey to letter carriers that are around here. I gave them treats to give to Bailey. But it takes time, that some people don't have.

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

We live in northeast TN but when the cat bit me, my dog killed the cat when I dropped it. I think the whole story is in one of these threads. Anyway, if I remember right, I contacted the health dept and my husband went down and picked up the box. If the cat hadn't already been dead, I wouldn't have done it. The cat had no vaccinations or visits to a vet and killed rats on a daily basis so it is kind of different circumstances. I only had one deep puncture wound that went to the bone and ended up with blood poisoning. Also, the ER recommended that we do the rabies testing otherwise, I wouldn't have thought of it.

Ouch! Was the blood poisoning a serious thing? It sounds very serious.

I'm not 100% sure that vaccination records keep the animal from being put down. I think It's time for me to call a lawyer. The lawyer with a little dog, that I went to school with.

Oops...it shows location on some members.

[Artos]

I dont know the law in your place...but it looks to me like the post carrier INVADED your space, TRESPASSED into YOUR territory when she put her hand into that mail slot.

If a dog attacked her while protecting the house, it is not the dog's fault.
It's the Trespasser's fault.

What did your lawyer say?

[Chip's Mom]

The blood poisoning was quite serious but the Dr at the ER gave me the wrong antibiotic so it didn't fight this type of infection that is how I got it in the first place. Anyway, My Dr sent me to an orthopedic dr who told me "I was very fortunate as I almost bit the dust" He also said a Cat's mouth is much dirtier than a dog's - not sure why. Anyway, I agree with Artos - the slot was to put the mail through, not her hand. Let us know what the lawyer says and Good Luck. What did the other mailman say?

[milles2]

I have a hidden/electric fence on my property for the dogs. They both wear their collars when they are outside and they are excellent at respecting the boundry.

They have no fear of cars. When a car pulls in the driveway they will walk right up to it and I suspect would walk right into a moving vehicle. Fortunately the wire is set a ways up the driveway so cars who are just pulling in to turn around are far enough away from the boundry line.

Still, the rural post delivery person will sometimes pull all the way up the driveway as does the UPS guy, etc.

One day the dogs were out in the yard and I was inside, I heard all kinds of barking, so I ran out.

The barking had stopped and what I found was my two hoodlums jumping up on and smooching the daylights out of the poor mail lady. She had muddy paw prints all over her.

Either she must have liiked dogs or known enough about them to see my two were lovers not fighters...... She could have pepper sprayed them for all I knew!

Watchdogs, my two are not. I've never seen them react to a stranger other than the butt wag and the jump up and smooch. Lulu is more unsure of stangers than Tucker. Tucker would give Ted Bundy the royal treatment.

Now if someone were to stick their hand in the door..... I suspect they would lick it thinking there had to be treats somewhere......