Most Important Qualities in a puppy

[Chip's Mom]

With all this talk about breeding and buying champion puppies etc, I am just curious as to what is the most important quality to look for when you buy a puppy. As there are no perfect puppies or dogs and I know people want a puppy for different reasons. My top priority would be health and temperment and I think those two should go hand in hand. Breed standard would follow a close third. Also, when breeding dogs, what should be the qualities a breeder looks for before she breeds. I have heard that some breeders will breed to better the breed (to many breeds in there) based on conformation and how well they show in the ring even though they throw a serious fault or there is a serious fault in the lineage in hopes of getting one or two show quality puppies. If puppies are born with faults such as fluffies or overbites, then that dog should not be bred again in keeping with the thoughts to better the breed. (Is this true) Whenever champion breeding is brought up, it pops in my mind about the story I heard about a show judge who was associated with running a puppy mill (not sure if this is true or not) These are just some thoughts that was running through my mind on a early Saturday morning so I thought I would ask.

[tandemgal]

health and temperament and personality were my top issues with Chloe. And one faulty issue was wanting a female (seen the error of my ways)... not that I would trade my little wiggle butt for anything!

[Chip's Mom]

T-Gal

Thanks for adding that one. That is what I looked for with Dale so there should actually be three for me too.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

[size=2]With all this talk about breeding and buying champion puppies etc, I am just curious as to what is the most important quality to look for when you buy a puppy.

Temperament, health, and soundness, with a slight edge to temperament. You can have the healthiest, most perfect specimen of a breed possible and if the temperament is bad, then no one is going to be able to live with it and if it can't move, then what?

Also, when breeding dogs, what should be the qualities a breeder looks for before she breeds. I have heard that some breeders will breed to better the breed (to many breeds in there) based on conformation and how well they show in the ring even though they throw a serious fault or there is a serious fault in the lineage in hopes of getting one or two show quality puppies. If puppies are born with faults such as fluffies or overbites, then that dog should not be bred again in keeping with the thoughts to better the breed. (Is this true)

It might help if one thinks of breeding as an art and I don't necessarily agree with the concept of breeding to better the breed; the breed is fine, individual specimens need improvement. And how well a dog does in the show ring is not necessarily an indicator that it is going to contribute well to the gene pool. Not every champion is worthy of breeding or should be bred. Only those with outstanding virtues to pass along should be contributing to future generations. So how does one figure this out? Years of study and devotion; research, having mentors who teach and being a willing student - one who genuinely wants to learn and understand. There's always something to learn. Developing an eye. Understanding the pieces, how they are put together and that how they are put together influences everything. Looking beyond the icing to the bare bones of the cake. While the basics may be the same for any breed, there will be some specifics that one needs to consider for a particular breed - such as tail set in Cardigans for example.

Just so happens Thursday night I was looking over pedigrees with my sister to try to decide which stud to breed to one of her girls. She matched up her pedigree to six different dogs. The girl is a lovely specimen, very sound, well put together, nice movement, good tail set, shoulders are good, rear sound ... we needed to decide which of the boys would complement her best and she them. Now if we were looking to improve on her front, then we would have been factoring in shoulder angulation of the studs. IF we had been wanting to strengthen her rear, then we would have been looking at the dogs with the strongest rears. All this goes to soundness, sounder dogs move better and cut down on things like scraping nails when they walk - a structural issue.

Another thing to keep in the back of one's mind is that the Hobby Breeder is basically breeding for herself. She's put a lot of work, time and study into a match in hopes of producing a puppy that will be her keeper. She's not putting these two together to create a litter just to have puppies to sell.

As for faults or issues that should pull a dog from the breeding pool - it depends upon the breeder and whether the fault or issue is cosmetic (as in the case of fluffies) or an inherited quality of life health issue. A lot of health issues can be congenital, but that does not mean they are necessarily inherited. It takes study to determine whether some of them are genetically based or just happened.

Whenever champion breeding is brought up, it pops in my mind about the story I heard about a show judge who was associated with running a puppy mill (not sure if this is true or not)

Ethics are ethics and whether one has them or not does not depend upon someone's status in whatever "profession" they may be in.

These are just some thoughts that was running through my mind on a early Saturday morning so I thought I would ask.

Not sure IF I answered any questions or just stirred the mud more.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

Debbie:

As always you came through with flying colors. Thank you for all of the information that you put into this answer. It has helped me understand a breeder's logic and enlightened me on good reasons to go with that type of a breeder. I am sure that it has also helped alot of other people that have little or no knowledge of what constitutes good breeding practices.

[Dillydoodle]

When i set out to get my corgi, I didnt care about if the dogs were showing or how many champions were in the lineage. The two things that i was looking for were health and temperment. I had just recently lost my soulmate kitty Clinton to liver disease. I also had another kitty at home with Diabetes and just felt like health was something that was so important to me and now that I had chosen to get a purebred dog, i was researching to make sure that the breeder would care a great deal about health and longevity of their dogs. I also was very concerned about temperment as I had at the time my diabetic kitty at home, i live in a neighborhood with kids and wanted to make sure that the dog that i brought home was going to be easy going and have good temperment to get along with people, cats, other dogs, etc... I talked to a few breeders, a few handlers and a few owners about their corgis at a few shows, and asked them where they got them. I called several breeders to feel them out, ask questions. A few blew off the health questions or didnt seem to be that concerned " oh dont worry I have never had a problem with any of my dogs" or " i dont health test, i don't see the need, after all my dogs are healthy". When I got to my breeder, she was concerned with health and did test her dogs and she asked me a lot of questions about the kind of life the puppy would have, why i chose the corgi, etc etc...and i appreciated that she intereviewed me as much as i was interviewing her, as this shows she cares about her pups well being. She answered all my questions and wanted me to come meet her dogs and this gave me a great opportunity to see her dogs, meet her in person and see how they lived and were treated, and i was thrilled with what i saw and i got on her waiting list. Just thought i would share my experience.
Emilie

[Chip's Mom]

Great information Emilie. The more people ask breeders about health testing the more people will do it if that is the only way they are going to sell their puppies. I also thought it was really important to see the facilities where my puppy was living and the parents of the pup. I didn't know anything about health testing though. I was absolutely clueless. Now I am informing people about health testing who are thinking about getting a puppy and thanks to Peggy and Deb we have a list to hand out.

[emma]

Oliver is the first dog I have ever owned. Temperment was absolutely most important for me. I really did not want a neurotic or hyper dog. Conformation was least important to me. I was looking for a healthy puppy who would be sweet and gentle and happy and cuddly and dependable. Having never had a dog in my life, I wanted as few unknowns as possible. Which is the reason I opted against rescue and decided to buy from the absolute best breeder I could find. It also helped that each pup was tested by a handler. Oliver has turned out to be the most incredible dog I've ever met in my life. He is absolutely perfect.

[Bayoucorgi]

Debbie, you did an admirable job.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

[size=2]... even though they throw a serious fault or there is a serious fault in the lineage in hopes of getting one or two show quality puppies. If puppies are born with faults such as fluffies or overbites, then that dog should not be bred again in keeping with the thoughts to better the breed.

Boy, not much left to say, Debbie did a great job with her reply!

However, as Debbie said it's not to better the breed but to improve the next generation. The puppies we produce should be better than the parents.

As for "serious faults", well, that depends. An overbite is not good, but if you breed a female and one puppy has an overbite that doesn't mean she'll every produce it again, so pulling her or the sire from breeding ever again is premature. Remember that it takes two genes to produce whatever. Breeding the parents to different dogs will get different results. However, you then know they they "carry" the gene for an overbite, so don't breed to another dog that you know also has that.

And many times you don't know if they carry a gene for something like an overbite until you breed them. Since we can't see the genes.

A fluffy is not a serious fault since it doesn't compromise the puppy's health. I would not pull a dog from the gene pool that produces fluffys. Maybe taking a chance of getting a fluffy is worth the gamble and maybe you want to look for a mate that has been tested "fluff free".

When looking for a pet puppy, well, IMO, finding the right breeder is the key. Find a reputable breeder who does the health testing and will tell you the faults and assets of his/her dogs. I tell people exactly why a puppy is being sold as a pet, why I think they aren't showable and shouldnt' be bred.

A breeder should ask you questions too, not you do all the asking. They should be looking for the right home for thier puppy, not trying to "get rid" of puppies.

IMO, responsible/reputable breeders show their dogs. If they're not showing how can they be breeding to the standard? How do they know if their dogs measure up to the standard or not?

I also agree with Debbie that not every dog that is a champion is one that should be bred. There are dogs that have finished their championships that are not IMO, breeding quality.

Peggy

[Chip's Mom]

Wow! I have really learned alot and thank you for clarifying the overbite issue Peggy. I will forward that information on if it is ok with you. Now don't anyone think that I am contemplating breeding my Dale. I am just trying to broaden my knowledge. Peggy - I would also like to take this time to tell you that you complement our Board nicely.

[milles2]

Frankly, certified eyes and hips, Von W disease acutally worried me far less than things like cancer and getting hit by a car. Keeping the dog safe I knew I would have some control over (but then anything can happen in a blink of an eye...). No one ever seems to talk about cancers in bloodlines. I know you probably can't test for it (YET!) but I am always reading on these lists that people are losing their dogs to cancer. Yet I never read about this as a concern with breeding.

I read about dogs having/developing hip problems, but no one talks about cancer.

My neighbors had 2 Dobermans when I moved here. The oldest female died of cancer at a very young age. They added a new female this past summer and now their male is dying from a cancer. And he's only 4 or 5.

Anyone else wonder why no one talks about cancer in breeds?

[Chip's Mom]

Susan:

I don't talk much about cancer in dogs because I have lost two to cancer (lymphoma) and it is just to painful for me. Opting for chemo is a personal decision and the causes of the cancers are many. The vet told me that is was very unusual for a pet owner to lose two dogs to lymphoma in a year's time. Aladdin was a rottie and he was only 7. Digger was almost 15 but it hurts just as much. I am sorry for your neighbors loss.

[Michael Romanos]

That's an easy question.

Health, temperament and physical soundness.

I don't think any of these three 'ingredients' to look for in any puppy can be separated.