Cardi extinction

[Lady's Daddy]

It seems some people can't take things at face value. I do think Pems have more appeal to most people. I think what Michael is saying is that it is a shame that the Cardis have been so short changed in their value. Why is everything so damn high school around here. Everything he writes has to be so controversial. He can never write anything innocent because everything has to be taken with such skepticism. Everything he writes has to have an alterior motive. So maybe he can't totally express what he means. but everyone has to take the most negative feelings from everything. I'm sooo sick of reading how he is so bad and how he is out to get you people. Why do you always have to look over your shoulders to make sure someone isn't stabbing you? I think the people who have such an unability to give the benefit of the doubt to others who write things are the real cause for the problems some have with this website. Why don't you ask him exactly what he means by his topics before you rush in to getting so upset about what he writes. I think it is really unfair and unbelievable how people take him. I guess he can never win. So why are you here? You should start your own website www.noopenminds.com. When will this stupidity end? There are plenty of chat rooms for you to dog on other people about their opinions. If you don't agree then why respond. Who cares? It's not the end of the world for someone to write something that you don't agree with. Get over it. If your feelings are hurt because you own a precious Cardi, then get real. You like your Cardis and that is great, but this is not a competition. Love your dogs and stop caring if someone doesn't quite find them to be the more "attractive" corgi. I personally am not a fan or Cardis, but I don't have one and I have never met one in person. I'm sure if I was around them, I would love them too.

[Lady's Daddy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

The number of Go Corgi members who are suddenly (or otherwise) committing themselves to getting a Cardi as their very next Corgi, is highly commendable and I look forward to a a big influx of Cardi antics and Cardi owners on Go Corgi. I hope it is not just a rush of blood.

Does this make you feel better? He is sooo evil.

[Chip's Mom]

Lady's Daddy

You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else but PLEASE refrain from using four letter words on this forum. It is offensive and hopefully the moderator will censor it.

[Michael Romanos]

I really thought I saw a beautiful spotty Cardi staring back at me.
I really did think I saw such a one looking straight at me.
But it was only one of those just discovered little leopards from the remote New Guinea jungle.
Oh my gosh, just another Romanos bungle.

[Dillydoodle]

deleted post

[darci]

ladys daddy, your are entitled to your opinion as well as everyone else. My problem with Michael is he post things as facts when they are not they are his opinions.
Funny how Cheryl's post was deleted and yours only edited.

[Chip's Mom]

Thank you Michael for editing that.

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by Lady's Daddy

It seems some people can't take things at face value. I do think Pems have more appeal to most people. I think what Michael is saying is that it is a shame that the Cardis have been so short changed in their value. Why is everything so damn high school around here. Everything he writes has to be so controversial. He can never write anything innocent because everything has to be taken with such skepticism. Everything he writes has to have an alterior motive. So maybe he can't totally express what he means. but everyone has to take the most negative feelings from everything. I'm sooo sick of reading how he is so bad and how he is out to get you people. Why do you always have to look over your shoulders to make sure someone isn't stabbing you? I think the people who have such an unability to give the benefit of the doubt to others who write things are the real cause for the problems some have with this website. Why don't you ask him exactly what he means by his topics before you rush in to getting so upset about what he writes. I think it is really unfair and unbelievable how people take him. I guess he can never win. So why are you here? You should start your own website www.noopenminds.com. When will this stupidity end? There are plenty of chat rooms for you to dog on other people about their opinions. If you don't agree then why respond. Who cares? It's not the end of the world for someone to write something that you don't agree with. Get over it. If your feelings are hurt because you own a precious Cardi, then get real. You like your Cardis and that is great, but this is not a competition. Love your dogs and stop caring if someone doesn't quite find them to be the more "attractive" corgi. I personally am not a fan or Cardis, but I don't have one and I have never met one in person. I'm sure if I was around them, I would love them too.

Lady's daddy,

And Michael at times will continue to disagree with others because he can't accept others opinions and views either; but you aren't on here every day(that I Know of) so you don't always see those threads. He often posts his opinions as facts. Maybe one of these days he will realize the the US is not New Zealand.

And if Michael, doesn't like something that is said, he can edit or delete it; we don't have that luxury when he decides to post questionable remarks about one of us.

[glencorgi]

For some context and perspective in this thread. The newspaper article Michael lifted the information about Cardigan extinction was referring to its home country, although registrations there are on the up swing. The timing of the article was as a hook and precursor to the upcoming Crufts dog show - its pretty much that simple.

Reality is that the Cardigan gene pool internationally is larger and in better shape than it ever has been. Right now my sister and I are looking at breeding to an Australian dog (he's still in Australia, but his semen is in the US via frozen straws) who's sire is an American dog from California. Another breeding we are looking at is to an imported dog from England. The offspring of those litters may be taken to a litter out of a Best in Show, Best in Show Specialty winner and Best of Breed winner at both Westminister and Crufts. Her sire is the aforementioned English import and the sire of the litter she has now is the Australian dog. This is just one example of how breeding of Cardigans is still very much international in scope.

Cardigans have never had the numbers Pembrokes have for a number of reasons. Cardiganshire geographically was a very remote area and residents would go out to do their trading, so there wasn't much exposure to the short tailed working dogs. Pembrokeshire, on the other hand, is coastal - with ports and much more traffic and trade going on. Queen Elizabeth's passion for Pembrokes brought the breed further to the public eye and an increased demand. In the US, kick over any rock and you can find Pembrokes once one knows where to look. Just find someone with horses <sigh>

Another reason for Breeders discontinuing their involvement in the breed is legislative restrictions. Laws are being passed (or attempted to being passed) that make it nearly financially impossible to breed. Breeding is costly enough IF one is doing it responsibly. Restrictive anti-breeder legislation which includes mandatory spay neuter makes it almost impossible to raise a litter in the manner most would wish to purchase a puppy from. Much of the anti-breeder legislation requires building the equivalent of a commercial kennel which means no more puppies reared in home. Mandatory spay neuter proposals are requiring speutering between four and six months UNLESS they are being shown in "approved" events. AKC events do not allow for puppies to be shown competitively until they are six months old. IF one is doing performance events such as agility, well those aren't started until a dog is a year old, minimum and many start later. Another issue in this is that legitimate, reputable organizations are often ommitted from the list of "approved" organizations for the exemption. (This is not limited to the US either.) Many Breeders are tired of the fight and have stopped breeding.

A number of Go Corgi members have mentioned being interested in acquiring a Cardigan prior to this article being written or shared here. There are also several who have come to GC for help in finding Cardigan breeders, also prior to this thread being an inkling on anyone's keyboard. So IF there is an increased interest in Cardigans, the source of it has nothing to do with this thread.

As for spotted Cardigans, yep they can have spots - it is called ticking. Pems have them too. As far as not being as "glamourous" as Pembrokes, I beg to differ - I've seen and known many Cardis that I would use the adjectives glamourous, elegant and even regal to describe. I've also met Pembrokes which I can use those adjectives to describe. But you have to remember, I get to see a very wide cross section of corgis from all sorts of breeding backgrounds, mostly Pems and well I'll tell you, glamourous is not an adjective I'd use to describe any of them. They are cute and darling in their own ways, but not a bit of glamour to them. I also come from a dog show world background and statements as the one originally made are nothing more than elitist snobbery based only on one's personal preference. It does not indicate that there is any substantive knowledge or experience on the subject. One could say it is basically based in ignorance. The good news is ignorance, unlike stupidity, is curable - education, if one is open and willing to learn, is the cure.

Debbie

[Lady's Daddy]

I don't post as often as many here, but that doesn't mean that I don't see what is going on. Just because I don't post every little cute thing that my Corgi does that doesn't mean that I don't reply to some posts. I just don't understand why everyone has to berate him whenever he posts something. Everyone values opinions so much, but most don't want opinions that go against their own. You make me sick. You all run in one big click and take offense to everything. When I write "you" I mean to whom my comments refer to. And obviously the people who respond very much know I'm talking to you. There is so much bad blood on this site and it no longer is a forum for adult conversations without insinuations about the intent. Some people are just not happy unless they can complain about something. When I do write what I do, it's because it is just so unfair how some peoples opinions have to be met with such irreverence. Even when he clears up what he originally writes, people still have to complain. Alll you ladies just go with the rest of the click and bash bash away. You are the problem. I suggest not reading his posts if you have such a problem with what he has to say. I refer to it as high school because it is. One person claims or infers to be the foremost expert on these dogs and noone says anything contradictory to them. "Oh its funny that so and so's post got deleted and yours just censored.". I know I have no room to talk right because I don't have posts in the thousands. That doesn't make me any less than you or make you more sophisticated. Obviously I'm not from your uptight generation and thank god for that. Old crotchety people crying and whining. Oh saying four letter words is just so classless. I guess I don't belong here. I'll go back to my gutter and let the "know it alls" have fun with the website. Michael: I would like to have all of my pictures, posts, my screen name, and profile deleted from this website. I hope all Corgi owners are like some of these people.

[Michael Romanos]

Lady's Daddy, stay cool. I admit on occasions I could do with a word or two of support from the sniper and nodding heads brigade but I need Corgi lovers like yourself to keep calm, and collected and not go on the run and disappear for ever. Play hide indeed, but seek when you feel it is appropriate.

I too find it rather sickly that some members harp on about opinions. Yes, offer layman opinions as that is one of the cornerstone objects of this website, but I often offer a layman opiinion and at the same time or soon after have it supported with expert opinions or statements. This can take up a lot of time and effort. And it is often these expert opinions and statements that get rubbished by those who just refuse to accept the experts. Maybe the experts they say are some junky Kiwis who know nothing about the USA. For example, puppy food. I backed up this business about ditching puppy food altogether or prematurely in a puppy's life with opinions from several vets, a nutritonist, a breeder of giant dogs, a breeder who exports Corgi puppies, and leading brand producers of dog food on the international market, and we still have members telling new Corgi owners what could be termed absolute nonsense at the worse end of it ( ie no puppy food is required). Someone said puppy food was 30 years out of date, another said puppy food was only put out by manufacturers in order to make more money (since the difference between the price of puppy and adult food is minimal I don't see money being an issue). Nothing I have said thus far, should prevent any member from disagreeing wholeheartedly with any so called expert advice or opinion or indeed anything I have said in this parapraph.


Glencorgi - your copy of the article may have referred to Wales as becoming Cardi extinct but mine says the UK and this was confirmed by one of the two NZ Cardi breeders who says that Cardi clubs in the UK are in danger of losing their championship conformation show status because of severely dwindling numbers.

[glencorgi]

Is Wales not part of the UK?? Sooo, the country of origin would be the UK would it not?

Debbie

[jprechel]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

For some context and perspective in this thread. The newspaper article Michael lifted the information about Cardigan extinction was referring to its home country, although registrations there are on the up swing. The timing of the article was as a hook and precursor to the upcoming Crufts dog show - its pretty much that simple.

Reality is that the Cardigan gene pool internationally is larger and in better shape than it ever has been. Right now my sister and I are looking at breeding to an Australian dog (he's still in Australia, but his semen is in the US via frozen straws) who's sire is an American dog from California. Another breeding we are looking at is to an imported dog from England. The offspring of those litters may be taken to a litter out of a Best in Show, Best in Show Specialty winner and Best of Breed winner at both Westminister and Crufts. Her sire is the aforementioned English import and the sire of the litter she has now is the Australian dog. This is just one example of how breeding of Cardigans is still very much international in scope.

Cardigans have never had the numbers Pembrokes have for a number of reasons. Cardiganshire geographically was a very remote area and residents would go out to do their trading, so there wasn't much exposure to the short tailed working dogs. Pembrokeshire, on the other hand, is coastal - with ports and much more traffic and trade going on. Queen Elizabeth's passion for Pembrokes brought the breed further to the public eye and an increased demand. In the US, kick over any rock and you can find Pembrokes once one knows where to look. Just find someone with horses <sigh>

Another reason for Breeders discontinuing their involvement in the breed is legislative restrictions. Laws are being passed (or attempted to being passed) that make it nearly financially impossible to breed. Breeding is costly enough IF one is doing it responsibly. Restrictive anti-breeder legislation which includes mandatory spay neuter makes it almost impossible to raise a litter in the manner most would wish to purchase a puppy from. Much of the anti-breeder legislation requires building the equivalent of a commercial kennel which means no more puppies reared in home. Mandatory spay neuter proposals are requiring speutering between four and six months UNLESS they are being shown in "approved" events. AKC events do not allow for puppies to be shown competitively until they are six months old. IF one is doing performance events such as agility, well those aren't started until a dog is a year old, minimum and many start later. Another issue in this is that legitimate, reputable organizations are often ommitted from the list of "approved" organizations for the exemption. (This is not limited to the US either.) Many Breeders are tired of the fight and have stopped breeding.

A number of Go Corgi members have mentioned being interested in acquiring a Cardigan prior to this article being written or shared here. There are also several who have come to GC for help in finding Cardigan breeders, also prior to this thread being an inkling on anyone's keyboard. So IF there is an increased interest in Cardigans, the source of it has nothing to do with this thread.

As for spotted Cardigans, yep they can have spots - it is called ticking. Pems have them too. As far as not being as "glamourous" as Pembrokes, I beg to differ - I've seen and known many Cardis that I would use the adjectives glamourous, elegant and even regal to describe. I've also met Pembrokes which I can use those adjectives to describe. But you have to remember, I get to see a very wide cross section of corgis from all sorts of breeding backgrounds, mostly Pems and well I'll tell you, glamourous is not an adjective I'd use to describe any of them. They are cute and darling in their own ways, but not a bit of glamour to them. I also come from a dog show world background and statements as the one originally made are nothing more than elitist snobbery based only on one's personal preference. It does not indicate that there is any substantive knowledge or experience on the subject. One could say it is basically based in ignorance. The good news is ignorance, unlike stupidity, is curable - education, if one is open and willing to learn, is the cure.

Debbie

Well said Debbie!

[Michael Romanos]

Yes and no Debbie. Wales, Scotland and Norther Ireland do have their own Governments and quasi-parliaments who are answerable eventually to London. These three countries along with England also have their own international representatives and teams - including in sport - apart from the Olympics when all countries in the UK come together. The World Soccer Cup ( the world's most watched event) held last year in Europe had among the 24 cup qualifiers, a team from England and also Scotland from memory. Wales and Ireland (North and South combined went close to qualifying) and so the country of origin of the Welsh Corgi is Wales in the first instance and Great Britain or Britain in the second. At least in New Zealand if you are talking about the origins of people, plants, animals etc in Britain, the country within a country invariably comes out first.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

... and we still have members telling new Corgi owners what could be termed absolute nonsense at the worse end of it ( ie no puppy food is required).

Michael, it's NOT required. It's suggested or recommended by the people you quote. Not "required" by them. No one can "require" anyone to feed a dog a certian food or a certain type of food.

If an adult food is formulated for growth and meets the requirements for growth then that means it's fine for puppies.

By the way, I got my information from experts too. Much of my knowledge of dog food is from a vet here who practices holistic medicine, and has done her own research on nutrition. (Dr. Kim Hennemen)

The other is an AKC judge, who was a professional handler and breeder before becoming a judge. (Pat and Bob Hasting, Dogfolf Enterprises, Inc.) In her book "Tricks of the Trade" there is a chapter on feeding dogs and she does not advise feeding puppy foods.

... another said puppy food was only put out by manufacturers in order to make more money (since the difference between the price of puppy and adult food is minimal I don't see money being an issue).

Ah, but puppies eat more than an adult dog, so you buy more puppy food than you would an adult food. And it depends on where you are and what food you buy. Here in the US, there can be a noticeable difference in the price of puppy food and adult foods.

From "Tricks of the Trade" by Pat Hastings: "In a sense, we as consumers may have convinced the dog food companies that we want special food for our growing puppies and that we are willing to pay extra for it. And no one in Corporate America's right mind would ignore that kind of message. So it goes - we give the message that more is better, and we believe if something on the market costs more, it must be better. But what does this cycle mean for our puppies?"

" High powered nutrients can make it possible to grow bone faster than it is meant to grow. However, the growth rate of tissue is unalterable. If a puppy recieves more nutrients than it can utilize so that those nutrients accelerate the growth rate of bones beyond the growth rate of tissue, that tissue can be weakened."

She also says, "We recommend you feed a name-brand product that clearly states it is formulated for all stages of a dog's life."

and "We belive if you are feeding a quality food to your adult dogs and they are in excellent condition, then that is what you should be feeding your puppies from day one."

Peggy