Breeders, how and where to find them

[glencorgi]

Michael asked if I would compile a list of recommended breeders to use as resource for this forum. I cannot and will not do that for several reasons. First I might forget someone and secondly, there are liability reasons to take into consideration.

What I can and will do is offer tools to assist those searching for a puppy - in the US as at least. Some of the criteria can be used no matter in what country one might reside.

I would not recommend using any of the advertisers on this forum as a source to look for a well-bred puppy.

One's first stop should be the parent club for the breed one is interested in. There is a lot of good educational information which can help determine whether a breed might be right for an individual home or not. For Cardigans the Cardigan Welsh Club of America's (CWCCA) site is <http://www.cardigancorgis.com> For the Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club of America (PWCCA) <http://www.pwcca.org> From there one can find a list of members/breeders and a breeder referral contact. Additionally one can find links to regional breed clubs. Not every responsible, reputable, knowledgeable breeder will be a member of a club. Sometimes just because of where they live, there is not access or opportunity to belong to a club, plus the requirements for PWCCA are rather involved. Not every parent club or regional club member will be necessarily reputable either, that is where doing one's homework helps to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Generally speaking though, club members and additionally reputable non club members will breed according to the standard and follow the Code of Ethics set forth by the clubs. A Code of Ethics is the minimum guidelines one should look for in a reputable breeder. Someone selling their Pembroke puppies at less than 8 weeks of age is not breeding according to the CoE. Most reputable and responsible breeders go far beyond what is outlined in the CoE's.

Learn what the health problems are in the breed and what tests should be done on the parents before they are bred. In Pembrokes: eye problems (parents will be cleared by a CERF exam), hip dysplasia (OFA & PennHip are the two main organizations which examine hip x-rays and rate them) and vonWillebrand's Disease (vWD). There is now a genetic marker, unfortunately the accuracy of which is somewhat in question now. In Cardigans, hips and eyes are also tested and additionally PRA. PRA is progressive retinal atrophy which causes blindness. There is a DNA marker for it and it has proven a blessing for the Cardigan breed. It is now possible for lines to have been cleared by parentage (grandparents on all side have tested clear).

One of the best articles on how to find the right breeder and that right puppy can be found at: <http://www.emrys-corgis.com/> under the "Looking For a Pup?" link. This article has been included on many of the Pem club websites and on the Corgi-L homepage as a guideline. While this article is specific to Pembrokes, it can easily be adapted to Cardigans or any other breed one in which one might be interested.

Books to help with research:
*Susan Ewing's "Pembroke Welsh Corgi Family Friend and Farmhand" is a good one on living with the breed day to day from puppyhood to the golden years.
*Richard Beauchamp's "Welsh Corgis" is good on both breeds; he also now has a good one on the Cardigans as well.
*"Everything Corgi" is great on both breeds and written by list members of Corgi-L. <http://www.corgiaid.org>
*There is another new one out I've just seen recently on Pembrokes, can't recall the name, but is available at PetsMart.
There are also some wonderful, now out of print, breed books that one can find with a little searching. Deborah Harper's "The New Complete Pembroke Welsh Corgi" being one - although it is a little more oriented to those with show interests than the general owner.

Nothing is going to replace doing one's homework and research, but suggestions and advice will be happily given if asked.

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Thank you Debbie for that. Debbie's advice and pointers should be of enormous value to those Americans who are looking for a Corgi pup that has a proven background and is most likely to be of sound conformation and behavioural stability and has the backing of reputable and honourable breeders. As well, the potential human moms and dads can be better equipped to deal with the newcomer into their household through all the good material available to them plus the helpful advice from the breeders.

Debbie's advice should allow Go Corgi members to seek out a better standard of Corgi rather that accept the first opportunity that comes their way which could lead to misery and disappointment.

[gailkate]

I do appreciate this information, as my Corgi search has not yet succeeded. This is the part that seems toughest to judge:

///Not every responsible, reputable, knowledgeable breeder will be a member of a club. Sometimes just because of where they live, there is not access or opportunity to belong to a club, plus the requirements for PWCCA are rather involved. Not every parent club or regional club member will be necessarily reputable either, that is where doing one's homework helps to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.///

Separating the wheat from the chaff is as hard as it is when searching for a doctor or lawyer. I talked to a breeder I felt very good about and she made reference to a couple in the state who were only in it for cash and minimal commitment, but she wouldn't "name names." if no one will do that, how can an outsider hope to do her homework and make a good choice?

[tandemgal]

removed by T-Gal

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by gailkate

I do appreciate this information, as my Corgi search has not yet succeeded. This is the part that seems toughest to judge:

Separating the wheat from the chaff is as hard as it is when searching for a doctor or lawyer. I talked to a breeder I felt very good about and she made reference to a couple in the state who were only in it for cash and minimal commitment, but she wouldn't "name names." if no one will do that, how can an outsider hope to do her homework and make a good choice?

Naming names can cause a sticky wicket from a legal stand point. Some pointers when talking to a breeder:

Even in a casual conversation, a Breeder (and that is a breeder with the capital B) will be interviewing you. How casually does the breeder bring up health concerns? Do they mention all their dogs are CERF'd, OFA'd or Penn-Hip'd? OR what is the breeder's answers when you ask about health issues? IF a breeder says, "my vet gave them a good physical and said they were okay." NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Another one that I've seen several times is: "My vet doesn't feel hip dysplasia is a real problem that effects corgis, so we don't x-ray." Walk away.

What is the breeder doing with their dogs? Do they compete in conformation or performance events? Why this is important to you is a puppy buyer is that a breeder actively involved in doing things with their dogs is going to need a conformationally correct (sound - health wise) dog to do these activities and will be producing puppies that reflect that.

At what age is the breeder letting the puppies go? 8 weeks is the very minimum, more normally from a Breeder the age will be 10 to 12 weeks.

Both parents may or may not be on premises. More often than not the sire of the litter may not be owned by the Breeder. Breeders go to great lengths to choose just the right male to complement their female. Information about him should be a part of the puppy pack and conversation.

Does the breeder invite you into a room and let you pick out which puppy you want to take home? OR Does the breeder take information about you, your lifestyle, family dynamics and then bring out a couple of puppies for you to choose between because they have the personalities and temperaments best suited to your home?

Reputable breeders generally focus on one or two breeds.

In my experience most reputable breeders will answer any questions you might have just in the way and what they tell you about the breed, the litter and their dogs, before you even have an opportunity to ask your questions. IF you don't get this kind of response, then ask questions. Ask them what kind of activities they are doing with their corgis. IF they reply they show them, but give you an answer that they don't do any health testing or screenings on the parents - walk away. It doesn't matter if one has the most beautiful corgi in the world, if the puppies aren't going to be able to walk.

What is the contract like? If it is a breeder who just takes your check and wishes you well - walk away.

Temperament is equally important. The most gorgeous dog in the world with a nasty temperament, is not going to be something one wants to live with.

If anyone would wish to send websites of breeders they are considering, I will respond privately with pros and cons that I see. My opinion, should be taken just as that - an opinion and perhaps as another bit of information/tool to be used in making your decision.

Debbie

[glencorgi]

A few other flags that popped to mind:

Ads or websites that advertise "Pembrook" Welsh Corgis, Pembroke "Welch" Corgis, or corgi spelled - "corgy, corgies." Recently saw one spelled "AKC Registered Pembroke Welsh *Courgis*" $XXX. If someone can't spell the breed correctly, then it really begs the question as to how knowledgeable they are going to be in breeding matters.

"Farm-raised, family-raised, kitchen-raised ...." buyers beware.

Incorrect terminology - the white marking up the nose and onto the head is a blaze, not a stripe. A breeder should at least use the proper terms. The white marking around the neck is a collar.

Advertising show puppies and charging more for them when a breeder doesn't show.

Charging $200 - $300 more for "breeding" rights or "breeding" quality dogs.

Refer to their stud dogs and breeding females as "breeders."

Advertising fluffies, whitelies or bluies as "rare" and charging higher prices for them. Same with undersized dogs being referred to as miniature corgis or teacup corgis.

Breeders deliberately cross breeding corgis with other breeds such as Pugs, Beagles, Jack or Parson Russell Terriers, Australian Shepherds, etc.

Debbie

[darci]

Great info guys, good thread.

[Michael Romanos]

There you have it. Debbie will try to give assessments of American Corgi breeders via personal correspondence. Can't ask for a lot more than this. Thanks Debbie.

[Michael Romanos]

THis posting is just to keep Debbie's comprehensive advice to the forefront of Go Corgi a little while longer.
Debbie's stuff about seven this and seven that on puppies from birth to seven weeks old, is a little over the top and questionably useful, but her guide to Corgi breeders etc in the USA on two or three postings in this thread, is exceptional information.

[corgimom]

Refer to Thread: Inbreeding - good or bad?