Question about Foods

[glencorgi]

Not playing with words; AAFCO does NOT approve foods. Per
David Syverson
Chair, AAFCO Pet Food Committee
Located at:
Minnesota Department of Agriculture
Dairy and Food Inspection Division
625 Robert Street North
St. Paul, MN 55155-2538
Web Site** Commercial Feed Program

"I want to be real sure that you have the correct understanding of the nutritional adequacy statement. It is not an "approval" of any kind. AAFCO does establish the standard, it is the responsibility of the firm to meet the standard, but AAFCO does not approve any products."

There is NO stamp of AAFCO approval. Period!

Debbie

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

This might be interesting: the Wellington Welsh Corgi Walking Club is entered in the Wellington street Xmas parade on November 18 and our sponsor is the Masterpet Company who are the importers and distributors of Eukanuba. So it is possible that all the human participants will have t-shirts with Eukanuba emblazoned on them and the Corgis with an Eukanuba bandana.

Might be novel to you, but in the US Eukanuba has been a big sponsor of dog shows and other pet related events. I've given away jackets, chairs, grooming bags and all kinds of Eukanuba emblazoned products. Have some really neat metal tin containers for dog biscuits w/their logo on them, dog food containers - the Eukanuba logo shows up on all kinds of products.

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Debbie - while you continue to play on words, to my mind it makes you seem ridiculous. Passing a test and able to legitimately claim to this effect ie tested & passed = approval, or approval = tested & passed, is approval in my books, those of the dog food manufacturers who have qualified and as well one of AAFCO's dog food test scientist, Dr Nick Cave. They all realise that the approval is with the standards requirements and not necessarily the rest of the contents.
I suggest you try some other subject to be critical.

[glencorgi]

So your words carry more weight than the Chair of the AAFCO Pet Food Committee, David Syverson?

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

A leading USA vet and canine commentator, Dr Jon, terms AAFCO tested and passed as AAFCO-approved. Get over it, Debbie. All the AAFCO organisation is saying to you is that they don't necessarily approve or disapprove of the total contents of the food. Though I would not expect AAFCO-approved alligned to food which could poison dogs.

[v3rs3]

We just switched our Corg's from Eukanuba Breed Specific to AvoDerm. They seem to like it, but they really don't care what they eat, they are hogs.

[HemiBee]

well hemi seems to love Canidae.. so i'm so glad that i've finally found something he likes a lot!

Coop is a piglet!! He got into Hemi's dog food the other night and we found him halfway INSIDE the bag munching away. And he still wanted dinner. unbelievable.. this little dog. He looooves to eat.

I have 2 extremes.. one who is picky and the other who is a piglet

[Vannette]

Surely you folks have put in Iams tests or Eukanuba tests into the search bar and read some of the results that come up, haven't you? Please feel free to tell me it isn't so. It is beyond disgusting to me.

[fogebotom]

Having worked for a dog food distributor and being deep within the many secrets of the dog food world, here's a few comments:

First off, if your dog is doing well on what ever food you are feeding them, don't change. Each and every dog is different, has different requirements. Though I would love to have my entire herd on one food, it doesn't work that way. My three toy dogs need a different caloric uptake, while my seniors need less protein to keep the kidneys functioning properly. My one cardigan can't eat anything with barley, while another can't eat anything with carotene in it. Just because someone else's dog is doing well on it, your's might not. Just because it seems to you to be a better food, it might not be right for your dog.

Second, dog food by far has more testing done on it then our average human food. I worked with a gentleman who had a doctorate in animal nutrition. He would routinely sample dog food and biscuits from companies trying to get us to sell their food. Overall, it is more balanced and healtier then our food. Some of it has it's gimics, that's what you have to look out for.

Next, it's not the ingredients on the label that are as important as the quality of the ingredients. Companies that single source their ingredients vs those that go for the cheapest bid, are better. Iams and Euk when they went mass market, openly admit to cheapest bid and will get say the corn from ten different vendors. Regardless of the issues with Diamond, I can say that they are a single source ingredients company so the consistency is there. Find out how many different plants the company runs. Euk on the west coast can have a totally different ingredient make up then the east coast, even though the labels indicate it's the same recipe.

Perferrably we want a whole meat source as the first ingredient BUT did you know that you are better off having chicken meal rather then whole chicken as the first ingredient? Listings on the labels are by weight, so whole chicken lb per lb compared to chicken meal is more water and there for the total amount in the food is less when the water is removed.

Carbs are not evil in dog food. Fiber is necessary. Dogs in the wild will eat the stomach contents of ruminents which is mostly grass and grains, though partially digested. So look for meals not whole grains. Meals have are already broken down some, similar to what would be in a first stomach of the ruminent.

I can go on and on about who certifies what and if what it's based on but why? It's like the current fight over Natural and Organic labels-there is no one particular organization that oversees all of the those so each state in the US is left to create it's own board. In Iowa we have two with one carring more weight then the other. Heck some states don't even recognize another states organic certifications!


Okay, my two cents worth on the whole subject!

Cindy and the crew

[Chip's Mom]

cindy

I am curious! I read articles on the internet that state you can find all sorts of rodents, etc in some brands of dog food. Do you know if this is true or not.

[Michael Romanos]

Let's face it, by and large, dogs do not know what is best for themselves when it comes to food.
Man has only just discovered what is best for dogs in recent times. Canine food scientists are doing a wonderful job as long as the people with the end result (the food manufacturers) take full account of this and the people who feed their dogs are made fully aware of what is best and are not clouded in their judgement with what dogs eat in the wild. This is because dogs do not know what is best for themselves when it comes to food, and they mostly have little or no choice of food - they take what they can get and what they can get is never going to reach the minumum standards of food as uncovered by the scientists associated with AAFCO.

[Michael Romanos]

Cindy and the Crew - there is a new dry food on the market that is made in New Zealand - it is what the producers have titled as containing only 'natural' food. Never going to be presented to AAFCO for testing and passing (ie approval) because the food can't reach the AAFCO standards set. If the food is going to be shy or short of one, a few, several or many of the required minerals, vitamins and nutrients, would you think it's the best food to recommend even if a dog was over the moon about it?

[fogebotom]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Cindy and the Crew - there is a new dry food on the market that is made in New Zealand - it is what the producers have titled as containing only 'natural' food. Never going to be presented to AAFCO for testing and passing (ie approval) because the food can't reach the AAFCO standards set. If the food is going to be shy or short of one, a few, several or many of the required minerals, vitamins and nutrients, would you think it's the best food to recommend even if a dog was over the moon about it?

Personally-natural and organic are used way too much in today's market. Regardless of it being humans, dogs, cats, horses, etc. What I want to know is where is it produced, who do they get their products from and what are their testing procedures. AAFCO is a base line. They have set up testing and documentation procedures to meet a min. My question to the company is what are they "shy" of or missing that would not allow them to get the AAFCO stamp. I would also be interested in taking it to an animal nutritionist-NOT A VET- for their opinion. Also why are they "shy"? Is it just that they don't add it or is it missing for a reason.

Side note---your vet is NOT the most qualified person to give you advise on nutrition for your pets. The average vet student is only required to take one to two basic general animal nutrition classes. It's like asking your dentist to look at your ingrown toenail. They know basic anatonmy but really can't help you get to the cause of the problem. Find a good animal nutritionist. Go to your local feed mill and ask who creates their hog or dairy diets. Or ask them to refer you to someone who is a nutritionist. Luckily I have one at my old workplace and he's still a great reference for me.

I actually do use a couple of all natural products for my dogs that they love and as far as I know are not AAFCO stamped. Honest Kitchen is a dehydrated raw food. I love it and have had my animal nutritionist dr look at it. I have had extensive talks with the company and am confident in what they produce will work for my dogs.

Okay, the basics are this-if your dog enjoys the food, to you the ingredients are quality and balanced for your dog's needs, your dog is healthy and his phyiscal makeup-skin, coat, hair, blood panels ,etc indicate that he is doing well on what he is eating-go for it.

Cindy and the crew at Foggy Bottom
www.foggybottomusa.com

[Michael Romanos]

Undoubtedly, anyone can make up a daily meal for their dog/s that contains at least the minimum standards, and doesn't surpass the maximum standards, of AAFCO. But I would expect that very very few people in the world are actually in a position to accomplish this successfully. So avoid the risks and shortfalls, and take what is on offer commercially for their puppies, adults and senior dogs, from those who qualify.

[fogebotom]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Undoubtedly, anyone can make up a daily meal for their dog/s that contains at least the minimum standards, and doesn't surpass the maximum standards, of AAFCO. But I would expect that very very few people in the world are actually in a position to accomplish this successfully. So avoid the risks and shortfalls, and take what is on offer commercially for their puppies, adults and senior dogs, from those who qualify.

I agree, many are not in the position that say you or I are in. So you do the best with what you have available. Avoid the trends, stick with the basics. Meat proteins first in line, watch the amount of grains in the food and overall-know your dog. You are the best person to know how your dog is doing. Kind of like our kids. For example, picked up Meredith after school and say a red scratch mark on her neck. Most wouldn't think twice, but I asked her what she ate that day. She has a red food dye allergy and it causes hives. Bingo, though she is diligent about avoiding forbiden foods, she accidently ate something that had a red cast to it.

Commerical foods for the most part are good. Go online, find out about the company, where it's made and the ingredients used. Not one dog food will feed every single dog in your home, your blessed if it does.

Cindy and the crew
www.foggybottomusa.com