Puppy Mill in VA

[Chip's Mom]

Did anyone read this article on the puppymill bust in Virginia?


1,000 dogs from 'puppy mill' need homes - UPI.com

[Chip's Mom]

Puppy mill rescue operation under way

By Hank Kurz Jr.
November 9, 2007



Associated Press Although some of the dogs at Horton's Pups, a puppy mill located in Hillsville, Va., were housed in metal kennels, many animals were kept in cages built from chicken wire and wood framing, and denied the socialization that produces good pets.

RICHMOND (AP) — A southwestern Virginia puppy mill that was home to more than 600 breeding females is now the site of a huge rescue operation, with the owner agreeing to relinquish nearly 1,000 dogs for treatment and possible adoption.


"I can't even describe the amazing outpouring of support," Carroll County Administrator Gary Larrowe said yesterday of the operation, which could continue into the weekend. He estimated that as many as 120 people are involved at any given time and said the pet store chain PetSmart sent a tractor-trailer load of supplies.


"I'm not sure what we would have done with 1,000 dogs otherwise," he said.


The dogs, including hundreds of puppies, are being removed from Horton's Pups in Hillsville and taken to an emergency-operations center set up nearby. The center is staffed by veterinarians helping on a volunteer basis and others, Mr. Larrowe said.


Junior Horton, the owner of the mill, has bred dogs for more than 20 years, he told authorities, and had a license to have as many as 500. The dogs are mostly small, purebred varieties such as pugs, corgis and King Charles spaniels.


He eventually could face charges that include animal cruelty but has cooperated as authorities work to remove the dogs, treat them and send them to shelters.


"What Mr. Horton has done is taken 980-plus animals to the pound," he said.


In negotiations with county officials, Mr. Horton will keep 200 dogs, secure the proper licensing and comply with federal laws for dog breeders, Mr. Larrowe said

[Chip's Mom]

Can you imagine they let him keep 200 dogs?

[Michael Romanos]

If the law makers were any good the guy should be barred from owning any pets for life and should be heavily fined.

[glencorgi]

Back story to this is; in the week prior to this confiscation, USA Today ran several articles on HSUS' claims that there were 1,000 or so puppy mills in Virginia. How or where they came up with the number is not documented. So surprise, a week later in a small crossroads town, there is a big "bust." And why is this confiscation in a small crossroads VA town receiving national attention? From a timing perspective, what could be a better fund raiser for HSUS? Send us money so we can help get these poor puppymill dogs home for Christmas. One catch and this is a biggie, HSUS will NOT have one of these dogs; so IF you get a mailing from HSUS asking for donations to help just realize not a cent will go to the care of these dogs. Your donation will go to pay salaries, fund anti-pet ownership legislation and to marketing for more fund raising campaigns.

I have followed this story closely and I'm not all that far from where it took place. Horton was guilty of two things in legal terms; being over the limit for the number of dogs he was licensed for in the state of VA and not having appropriate USDA licensing to sell to pet stores.

I'm not sure who the "he" is in this quote; "What Mr. Horton has done is taken 980-plus animals to the pound," he said." BUT it is bollucks! In the total number taken there is no breakdown as to how many are adults or how many are puppies. One litter of puppies can double the number of dogs one might have just as soon as the litter hits the ground. Horton did NOT dump the dogs at any shelter and places for these dogs to go were already lined up and waiting before the knock on Horton's door happened. Local resources are not being stretched and from all other reports about, they aren't even being impacted.

As far as finding homes, these dogs can be placed two times over just because of the publicity and the clamor for them has already begun. They are going to no-kill facilities up and down the eastern seaboard from NY to FL. A shelter in Durham, NC has 30 of them and they are begging people to look at the dogs they have had for a while instead of rushing to adopt these particular dogs. They are the celebrity animal adoption du jour, just like Katrina dogs were in their time.

Horton had four full time employees in addition to his family. There have no reports that the dogs were neglected or not in good health. They were well fed and overall in good shape from most of the reports.

I "get" the emotional response here, I really do; but the heart is not the organ that needs to be engaged at this time; it is one's brain that needs to be used. Bring it back a little closer to home, what if a similar knock comes on the door of Chip and Dale's breeder? Regardless of the reality Bonnie knows about their breeder, the headlines are going to read the same.

Debbie

PS: No, our rescue program will not be getting any of the corgis as this is a HSUS run operation and purebred rescue groups such as ours are not among their "valued" resources.

[ColColt]

Horton had four full time employees in addition to his family. There have no reports that the dogs were neglected or not in good health. They were well fed and overall in good shape from most of the reports.

I "get" the emotional response here, I really do; but the heart is not the organ that needs to be engaged at this time; it is one's brain that needs to be used. Bring it back a little closer to home, what if a similar knock comes on the door of Chip and Dale's breeder? Regardless of the reality Bonnie knows about their breeder, the headlines are going to read the same.

Assuming he had five members in his family plus four full time employees and he had approximately 1000 dogs per the story, that mathmatically comes out to a little more than 100 dogs per person to take care of. I don't think any one person can care for 100 dogs whether they're grannies or six week old pups. You don't know what state the dogs were in when found and I submit that there had to be neglect as there just wasn't enough people per dog to go around if nothing else. No one should have or be allowed to have near that many dogs regardless if he has 20 employees. Whose feeding them and brushing their teeth and sees to it that they have plenty of water 24/7? Who and how often are their nails being trimmed and are thely being groomed at all? How about visits to the vet when things come up this "family plus employees' can't handle. It's numerically impossible for a few to take care of that many canines and it's a travesty to believe otherwise.

[Philbiker]

glencorgi makes good points, I wonder if we're hearing the whole story here. Not all larger breeders are "puppy mills".

[Chip's Mom]

Well I always go with my heart over my head and my heart tells me this is no situation for any dog to live in. Bred heat cycle after heat cycle and kept in a small kennel or cage is no life for any dog no matter what the alterior motive is. As far as having hired help, who sits up with the mama when she is in labor during the night or rushes her to the vet's in the middle of the night for a c section? The owner? That is fine and dandy unless he has several females all whelping at the same time and anything is possible. How many lay in their own blood and bleed to death? Like colcolt said doing the math, even if this person has 100 female dogs and all have a litter of puppies that is 10 puppies per dog which isn't realistic because we know not all of the females are going to have a litter at the same time, how is it possible for that few people to properly take care of these animals and give them the socialization and attention they need on a daily basis. Then these puppies are shipped to pet stores. How can someone ship puppies out to a pet store and have no idea how they do, what homes they go to and if they catch any diseases on the way? If you are going to run a business, a person needs to know and follow the laws. if you break the law, then you deserve what you get especially when your business involves warm blooded animals that have feelings just like we do.

[Michael Romanos]

I think Horton and his cronies should be locked up in one of their incanine cages and the key thrown away.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by ColColt

Assuming he had five members in his family plus four full time employees and he had approximately 1000 dogs per the story, that mathmatically comes out to a little more than 100 dogs per person to take care of. I don't think any one person can care for 100 dogs whether they're grannies or six week old pups.

I think you would be surprised at how many dogs one person can care for in a kennel situation.

You don't know what state the dogs were in when found and I submit that there had to be neglect as there just wasn't enough people per dog to go around if nothing else.

The article says some were in need of baths but otherwise in good health. Belive me if they were in poor health, had bad teeth, needed nail trims, etc. it would have been reported.

Whose feeding them and brushing their teeth and sees to it that they have plenty of water 24/7?

The owner, family and employees are feeding and watering them each day. Chances are their teeth were not brushed, but they might have had raw bones to chew on which serves the same purpose.

Not everyone brushes the teeth of every dog they own every day. There are other ways to keep teeth clean and healthy.

Who and how often are their nails being trimmed and are thely being groomed at all?

Again, the same people as above. Again there was no comment about then needing major grooming. So it must have been taken care of.

How about visits to the vet when things come up this "family plus employees' can't handle. It's numerically impossible for a few to take care of that many canines and it's a travesty to believe otherwise.

The same people would take them to the vet. Again, the article said they were in good health, and good conditon. They had to be taken care of or it would have been reported. They jump on things like poor health and condition.

Taking care of them could be done. One person cleans kennels or cages. One feeds the dogs one gives fresh water to them. That would take a the morning hours lets say. So that leaves the afternoon to take care of groomng and see to any health needs.

I think it could be done, not the best way to raise dogs and not the way I raise mine, and not what I'd recommend but it could be done.

IMO, while I do agree he had too many dogs, I don't see the need for a raid. The local officials could have cited him, fined him and given him some time to get his numbers down to where they should have been.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

Bred heat cycle after heat cycle

The article said they were not bred each heat cycle.

As far as having hired help, who sits up with the mama when she is in labor during the night or rushes her to the vet's in the middle of the night for a c section? The owner? That is fine and dandy unless he has several females all whelping at the same time and anything is possible.

Chances are they didn't all need c-sections at one time. And I'm sure he had it covered. To do otherwise and lose bitchs and/or puppies is losing money and this was a money making operation.

How many lay in their own blood and bleed to death?

Probably none of them. What makes you think that happened?

Like colcolt said doing the math, even if this person has 100 female dogs and all have a litter of puppies that is 10 puppies per dog which isn't realistic because we know not all of the females are going to have a litter at the same time, how is it possible for that few people to properly take care of these animals and give them the socialization and attention they need on a daily basis.

I know of a show kennel, (this was quite awhile ago) that had about 100 dogs or so pretty reguarly. She had the help of one part time kennel boy. She care for these dogs, they were in good condition, healthy, well socialized and just fine. I know she had about 20 litters per year. So yes, I know it can done and can be done well, without damage to the dogs.

Not too many years back kennels were the norm for show dogs. The top show breeders had kennels of a couple hundred dogs. They were the ones able to produce "lines". These kennels are behind all our purebred dogs and they were well bred, well taken care of and well socialized dogs. This was back before "puppy mills" and "high volume breeders" were policically correct terms and horrible things. These breeders would be called puppy mils today.

Then these puppies are shipped to pet stores. How can someone ship puppies out to a pet store and have no idea how they do, what homes they go to and if they catch any diseases on the way?

That I can't answer because I don't know how someone can do that. I can't. I need to know personally where my puppies go. However this is what happens even with commerical breedes who know and obey the laws. That's where pet store puppies come from.

If you are going to run a business, a person needs to know and follow the laws. if you break the law, then you deserve what you get especially when your business involves warm blooded animals that have feelings just like we do.

Yes, he broke the laws by having too many dogs and by not having the right permit to sell to pet stores. But his dogs were taken care of. He could have been cited, fined and told to get his numbers under control.

They did leave him with 200 dogs to carry on with so, their goal here was not to put him out of business. IMO, this was all done for the publicity.

Peggy

[Chip's Mom]

You are probably right peggy as far as the publicity is concerned and I do agree that it could have been handled differently then it was. The man should have been given time to rectify the situation without the people coming in and just taking all the dogs. They probably used him as an example. However, if he had been within the law in the first place, they wouldn't have been able to do that legally. I didn't realize that show people used to breed 200 dogs like that. I visualize pampered pooches in peoples homes and maybe breed a litter or two every year so that is interesting to know. I have listened to Deb (Glencorgi) for so long against puppy mills and pet store puppies that I am just totally against it and I really do believe that people shouldn't breed dogs like this. I look at mine and I can't imagine anyone plopping dogs in a cage or a kennel and having little or no interaction with them other then breeding and selling puppies to make money. This story also brought to mind, Granny a special little corgi that my breeder found in the give a way column that had (in her previous life) several litters of puppies in a doghouse that she was tied to all of her life. Now she is living the good life without being tied up and is living in a home and is loved. She does have one fault though, if you make eye contact with her, she jumps on your lap for lovins. I just cannot imagine people treating their dogs that way.

[Michael Romanos]

Peggy - You would do well in Iraq, attempting to see good in a company that farms 100 or 1000 multiple pure-breed dogs and subjecting them to a poor and dismal standard of living. Where is the beautiful, glorious outcome of this situation that has started on a incorrectly focused premise? Neither Taylor nor Chip would choose to be part of Horton's circus. Though Taylor might enjoy liaisoning with a few of the in-season Corgi females for a short time.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

However, if he had been within the law in the first place, they wouldn't have been able to do that legally.

That's true, he should have been in compliance.

I didn't realize that show people used to breed 200 dogs like that. I visualize pampered pooches in peoples homes and maybe breed a litter or two every year so that is interesting to know.

Even today many of the top breeders have kennels. Not as big as they used to be but still they are kennels. Not all show dogs are pampered house dogs.

And yes, those big kennels were able to "set type" (the look of the breed), and it's due to those large kennels that dog showing became a popular sport and that many of these breeds became known to the public as wonderful pets.

I have listened to Deb (Glencorgi) for so long against puppy mills and pet store puppies that I am just totally against it and I really do believe that people shouldn't breed dogs like this.

I don't agree with puppy mills either. I don't like that this guy was breeding the way he was or as much as he was. But I still don't think we need more laws. I can disagree with his practices or the practices of byb's and yet I still defend their "right" to be breeding.

I can't imagine having so many dogs and using them only for breeding either. The people that do it are hurting themselves too, by not getting to know how wonderful a dog can be.

Peggy

[Chip's Mom]

I don't think in this case that they are trying to create more laws, I do believe they are enforcing the laws on the books and that is what they need to do. If they had better inspections then maybe this person wouldn't have ended up with a 1000 dogs to begin with.