Question for Members about biting.

[Robby1974]

Hello again all:

I wanted to ask a quick question about a potential problem with my puppy. (Rhys). He is currently almost 15 weeks old and he plays quite alot (of course). We have been told by a friend (former corgi owner) that we should be discouraging all biting from our puppy. However, our vet has said (and some websites) that some playful biting is ok and perhaps should even be encouraged. I am unsure what to do about this issue with Rhys. He does tend to bite (very softly) during play with Jeff and I. I am wondering how we should go about addressing his natural instinct to bite our hands or feet during play and if we should discourage it or not. Jeff's previous corgi developed some extreme agressive behavior while he was even a puppy. He would growl very agressively around food or chew toys and eventually had to be put down because of that and serious biting. Rhys is actually a decendent of that very dog but has yet to show any agressive behavior at all. Rhys' temperment is EXTREMELY sweet and we have made it a point to have our hands near his mouth while rhys is eating or playing. Training him to eat from our hands or take a chew toy from his mouth has been very easy. He has yet to show any agressive behavior whatsoever. So my opinion is that we can allow playful biting. However, we don't want to make the same mistakes as with Jeffs previous corgi. Any thoughts on this? Thanks a bunch!

[fido]

To reduce growling for food or toys, according to Dog Whisperer, you can teach him to "sit", "down" then "stay" while getting his food and then "release" after you put the food bowl down. Praise heavily after each command with rubs, pats, and good boy/girl. Then as pup is eating, have family members stir his food around with their fingers and then 3-4 times a week take up the bowl before finished and repeat the sit, down, stay, release sequence and return the bowl. After several week, then do this just once a week or so (removing the bowl, otherwise every feeding use the sit, down, stay release--we use "ok! big guy instead of release). Keep plenty of chew toys around and if he nips at you or family, sternly tell him no!, sit , down, stay and let a few seconds tick off then release to break his focus on nippping or territory right over the toy and begin play again. Otherwise, we touch around our pups mouth alot so he could get used to us and teeth cleaning. Also is good place to gently give praise, under the chin with good boy/girl and gentle rub. To reduce aggressiveness, try not to play tug of war games. Instead try to teach fetch (with commands of "fetch" or "back") with lots of generous praise-rubs, pats, etc. When your pup brings it back (or you go to him at first to retrieve the toy) tell him "drop" or "give" then "sit" . Then then can start again. When game is over , tell him "keep". When a tug of war happens, tell pup, "uh-uh" "give" Leave it" or "drop". Also try to walk with pup daily and have your children also hold lead teaching "heel" with stops and praises, so pup can see them as higher order in pack. The philosophy, "a walked dog is a trained dog" is repeated over and over in his book. We have a 7 month old now and walk about 30 minutes in the morning and ususally 2 more 10-15 minute walks over the course of the day. Also walk in through doors first to establish pack order. This all has worked well for our fun loving, sweet, spirited corgi. Its worth a try.

[Jespah]

Wow, that's a fine line. I went through it with Rupe, more than Riley. He's food aggressive. It sounds like you all know the difference between serious biting and play biting. Play biting and biting is an important part of puppyhood. Their mothers would tell them when they get too rough and so must you. I would take Rupe's bones and things he liked to chew away from him and then give them back - but hold them so it was easier for him to chew. Now, he'll bring me something to hold for him to chew - so he turned right around from "no you can't take it" to "please hold this Mom".
You have to decide and be consistent with all members of your family and Rhys as to what's permitable and what's not. It sonds like Rhys is s a sweet little guy and he's just doing his puppy thing.

Deb

[corgimom]

Robby, Jeff,

I personally would never encourage any type of play biting and Rhys will soon
be 4 months of age. Anytime he bites, yell an "ouch" very loudly and just take your hands away for a moment. Repeat this any time he does this.

I just think play biting is not a good thing and if he should come in contact
with young children who want to pet him, they may not appreciate his play biting, nor the parents.


I also play fetch with my dog and then tell him to drop it. I don't do the tug of war. I think you are doing a good thing by handling his food while he eats, such as putting your fingers in his bowl, etc.

I was also taught in puppy class to teach the pup to "wait" when you approach a door; then you step in first and then tell the pup "okay" to let
him know it is alright for him to come through after you; but I must admit, I
have not been real consistant with this one.

Sounds like you guys are doing a good job, keep it up.

Linda

[tandemgal]

deleted by T-Gal

[disraeli]

My Rhys was a serious little biter when I got him. I discouraged it all the time. He even bit me a couple of times when I would try to take good chewies away from him. But I broke him of that...it took a while and he still gets growly when I take bones, but I always make sure I praise him and give him a treat when he gives up a goody.

As for play-biting (which he did a lot), he bit down pretty hard at first. I did the loud "ouch" thing and, if that didn't work, I would spray him with water from a spray bottle. I didn't mind play-biting as long as it wasn't hard, but he didn't know the difference.

He actually still play-bites with me now (softly), but I always let him know when he gets too rough that the session is over.

[corgimom]

Robby and Jeff,

And I bet when you say the loud "ouch", Rhys will look at you in this "I'm sorry
look" with his ears sort of back - that is what Cody would do and then he would cuddle up into us and try to give kisses - but consistancy will be the key; meaning, don't let him get away with it at times, and then other times not.

It won't happen overnight, but he will come around.

And you are right T-Gal, compliments from others on their behavior makes one
feel good!

Linda

[Fluffypants]

I am giving another vote for the *Loud Ouch* method. Jackie bit a lot when she was little, but we used this method, with time and patience, and we eventually broke it. The thing you want to get across to them is that BITING MAKES THE FUN STOP. So after the loud ouch, you need to cut them off from attention for a short time. Just ignore them, no touch, no talk, no eye contact, for about a minute or two. Then once they appear to have calmed a little, you can resume play again. Sounds like you guys are doing all the right stuff, and he sounds like a love bug, so just keep at it. He'll get it eventually!

[Jespah]

Ouch and stop playing are very good deterants - he'll learn!

[Michael Romanos]

There is biting and there is biting. Some people think that when a puppy grabs your hand that is biting. No it is grabbing. The pup wants attention, play, getting a rub or a tickle or a stroke. Taylor is three and he still grabs my wife's hand simply because it is not in my wife's nature to stroke, scratch and play with a dog. So Taylor prompts her. No good natured Corgi will bite til you bleed - they know how far to go. And you can't change a Corgi's nature in this regard unless other aspects are introduced. The only exception to all this is food - especially food that is carried - such as a biscuit or a bone. A Corgi can effortlessly bite your little finger completely off in a second. But do they?

[corgimom]

Michael,
Your last sentence and question puts all Corgis in the same boat and we
all know that in all breeds there are dogs that can become aggressive and mean.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to encourage play biting because it
could hurt a small child. As owners of our dogs, we may know how to discourage it or put a stop to it when we want to, but strangers and or small children may not.

Almost every night now this summer, the next door neighbors small children stop over to see Cody - the youngest is 2 and when Cody is on his back legs,
he is nose to nose with the little boy. I would never want Cody play biting at
him or his slightly older siblings - it is hard enough to try and keep Cody from
jumping up at him to try and give him a kiss; although we are working on this.

Linda

[Michael Romanos]

I don't know about Cody - but I suspect he is no different to Taylor. Taylor treats people on a scale. For example, a baby get different treatment to a toddler and a toddler gets treated differently to a child and so on. Obviously you also don't believe in play wrestling with Cody because the focal part of wrestling with Corgis - whose short stubby legs are poor at wrapping around etc - is their mouths. With Taylor he considers himself equal to my nine year old son, Nathan. And on a few occasions, Taylor has pulled down Nathan's 'track' pants during their wrestling and chase games. It is really very funny and we all have a good laugh - including Taylor. Corgis mature and they change. Taylor is far more reserved now than he was as a pup and a junior and so sometimes it is me who has to initiate a game or to pump up some excitement - though Taylor can still surprise. Last Friday at the retirement village he goes to, an elderly lady was having trouble stroking Taylor who was sitting beside her - and the wheel chair we sometimes use for wheeling around Taylor was nowhere to be found. But I just said 'up' to Taylor ( meaning: get up on your back legs and stretch upwards, please), instead, he sprung up on the woman's lap and laid down quite comfortably - and was the woman thrilled. At the same place a little earlier, A 10-11 month old baby girl was sitting on the floor in one of the lounges, surrounded by a host of residents. Off-lead Taylor walked right up to her and 'kissed' her hand and nosed her face and continued on his rounds. It is not only Taylor that I trust, I would even have let that errant puppy, Taffy have the freedom to express himself with people just as Taylor has been doing since he was three months old.

[corgimom]

Cody does love everyone he meets, but he hasn't gotten to the point yet where he can resist jumping up at little kids faces to kiss them - we are making some improvments in the area. He does, however, after his initial welcome lay down next to me if I am having a conversation with a neighbor, so he isn't trying to pull me in other directions while I am talking. He just has all this initial excitement when he has "visitors", but within maybe 3 minutes, he settles down, which is a good thing.

We have plenty of teen boys coming in an out on a regular basis, so I have to remind them to not let Cody jump up on them as this only confuses him that sometimes he is allowed to do it and others times, not.

linda

[CorgiMum]

deleted....

[CorgiMum]

Originally Posted by Robby1974

I am wondering how we should go about addressing his natural instinct to bite our hands or feet during play and if we should discourage it or not.

Jeff's previous corgi developed some extreme agressive behavior while he was even a puppy. He would growl very agressively around food or chew toys and eventually had to be put down because of that and serious biting.

What a very unfortunate situation.