Docking

[glencorgi]

Sweetlychee asked:
[quote=They are really cute puppies. My question is (please pardon me for I don't have the knowledge) is how do breeders dock their tails? I thought initially that corgis were born with their short tails. I realized later they have to be docked after they are born within a few days.

To me, "docking" sounds like cutting or seems painful.
Please explain.[/QUOTE]

Some Pembrokes are born with natural bobbed tails - an original breed characteristic/trait and docking the tails goes to the preservation of breed type. Type is what makes a breed a breed.

The two methods of docking are banding and surgical docking.

Banding is usually down by at the latest day three after puppies are born. A special type of rubber band (NOT the kinds picked up at the office supply store) is placed at the base of the tail. This cuts off the blood circulation, the tail withers and falls off. BEFORE they hysterics start - at this age the sensory nervous system is not developed and no they do NOT feel pain. Do you remember your umbilical cord falling off? Or how many men rember being circumcised? Puppies will react to stimuli with squeals and fussing and one gets no more fussing out of a puppy when banding the tail as they do when they take it away from Mom for a weighing. Dew claws are also done at this age. Puppies fuss while this is going on, and then all is right with their world once back in with Mom and siblings. Puppies will also react to being too hot or too cold. A chilled puppy is a dead puppy, as they cannot regulate their body temperature either.

Surgical docking is done by a veterinarian and more towards the week old time frame. Dew claws are done then too. A little bit of local for numbing the tail removed, maybe a stitch IF needed and they are good to go.

Debbie

[ChloeLouise]

Sweetlychee, don't feel bad - I didn't realize either that Pembroke's tails were docked! Now my question is, and at this point it is truly irrelevant: How much 'nub' is supposed to be left after docking for the correct Pembroke appearance? I have seen some Pems with quite a bit of nub left (almost like a stump of a tail, really) and others (like my Chloe) with absolutely NOTHING! Chloe has just a tuft of fur - not even a bit of bone or cartilige (or whatever tails are made of)...

(...wait a minute - how does that nursery rhyme go?... "snips and snails and puppy dog tails..." THAT must be where Corgi tails go ....)

[glencorgi]

The standard calls for the tail to be as short as possible without being indented. There are a wide variety of tail lengths due to the abilities of those doing the docking. I got a puppy out at Petland recently w/a 2-3" tail. It was a poor surgical docking once I got hands on, but I thought it might have been a natural bob.

Debbie

[Checkers]

I have done research on a lot of the before just because I was curious what the basis was for the people banning docking (and cropping of ears). To my knowledge both practices have been banned in England and a few other places. I think the analogy to the umbilical cord falling off was quite adept (though I disagree with the circumcision analogy because it has been shown young baby boys feel great pain due to that procedure... the only reason they don't remember is because it isn't possible for a baby to remember anything that young). Sorry.. off topic. Anyhow.. my question is how come the CWC's do not have their tails docked but the PWC's do? Are CWC's never born a natural bob tail and therefore it never was a part of the breed standard? At what point was the natural bob tail so regular that it caused it to be made a part of the breed standard for PWC's. I love my boy's little nub, as we call it, and if I were a breeder I would continue to dock tails but I'm just curious why the difference between breeds?

-Cheryl

[Fluffypants]

Maybe a difference in terrain between Pembrokeshire & Cardiganshire?

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Checkers

Anyhow.. my question is how come the CWC's do not have their tails docked but the PWC's do? Are CWC's never born a natural bob tail and therefore it never was a part of the breed standard? At what point was the natural bob tail so regular that it caused it to be made a part of the breed standard for PWC's. I love my boy's little nub, as we call it, and if I were a breeder I would continue to dock tails but I'm just curious why the difference between breeds?-Cheryl

They are two separate and distinct breeds developed from different backgrounds and originated in separate regions of Wales. They are not varieties of each other like Smooth and Rough Collies for example. And depending upon the eye one is looking at the two breeds with, they really don't look much alike. I don't think my Cardigans and my Pembrokes look much alike at all. Bone shape, ear shape, front assemblies, rear assemblies are different. When one does see a Pembroke with a tail, the tail sets and carriage are very different (or should be) between the two breeds.

Cardigans are from a Teckel hound background (Basset and Dachshund family). Natural bobs are not a part of their historical gene pool.

Pembrokes are from a Spitz background which does include natural bobs in the family background. Clifford Hubbard makes reference to a natural bob-tailed dwarfish dog in Pembrokeshire pre-dating any shows. There was some inner breeding in the early 1900's and that is when it is thought that perhaps the tail gene got firmly entrenched in the Pembroke breed. Another factor is the inheritance mode of the bob tail gene.

This is just a very brief overview. I've written some longer posts on the subject which can be dug up in the archives if you want to read more.

Debbie

[CorgiMum]

Thanks Debbie, as always, your information is extremely interesting to read.

[Cardiguy]

I had read that in some cases, and not necessarily pertaining to Corgis, tails are docked because in some breeds the natural tail is not designed to withstand the rigors that the dog might subject it to, i.e. going through thickets and other rough terrain with a thin bare type of tail. With a tail like the Cardigan, thick and bushy, the tail could withstand almost anything.

[Chip's Mom]

I wonder what their tail would look like if they had one. chip has a nubbin about 1 - 1/4 inch long and it is so cute when he waggles but Dig had a long tail that curled up - I used his as a handle sometimes when he was on my lap and I wanted to hold onto him. I find myself doing that with Chip but it isn't long enough. Anyway, I love Chip's little bob.

[Checkers]

Here's a link to a beautiful tri with his full intact tail. Still very very pretty dogs... but I must admit I prefer the nub look myself. Due to the ban on tail docking in some countries it is getting easier to find pictures.

http://www.phnet.fi/public/korjula/

-Cheryl

[corgimom]

Cheryl,

Yes, a beautiful dog, I am just not used to the tail - but still very pretty.

[Belroyd]

I've never had a Pem. corgi without a docked tail and have noticed that Cardigans always have their tails intact. I've seen pictures of Pembrokes with a tail, curling over their backs, but have to say I prefer the look of them without. In England, where I am, they are about to ban docking and as I'm hoping for another pup soon, I must hurry, before it has to have a tail. I read with interest Debbie's comments as to how it is done. Obviously no suffering involved, otherwise I wouldn't condone it. It will be interesting to see if the Queen's dogs are docked after the new law.

[KatC]

Originally Posted by Checkers

Due to the ban on tail docking in some countries it is getting easier to find pictures.
-Cheryl

You can find them right here on GoCorgi - Click on little Camera Icon in left margin to see more photos of Abby.

[tandemgal]

I though I remembered Abby having a tail! She looks very pretty with her bushy fox tail.

Why is it I can remember things like Abby's tail, and Chips ear-resistable ears and 14 different corgis names and owners here but still call my two sisters by each other's name???? guess it's just a matter of priorities...

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Belroyd

I've never had a Pem. corgi without a docked tail and have noticed that Cardigans always have their tails intact. I've seen pictures of Pembrokes with a tail, curling over their backs, but have to say I prefer the look of them without.

Cardigans are a different breed than Pembrokes and with a different ancestral history. The tail set and carriage you are describing of the Pembrokes you have seen with tails is correct; but I'm with you - I want bunny butts on my Pembrokes and a nice fox like brush behind my Cardigans.

In England, where I am, they are about to ban docking

Is this is an all-out ban? Or will veterinarians still be able to dock?

[quote= and as I'm hoping for another pup soon, I must hurry, before it has to have a tail. [/QUOTE]

Contact Peggy Gamble, Blands kennel. She has done a lot of work with natural bobs and is reportedly producing some very nice ones today.

Debbie