My baby corgi is going into heat

[Fluffypants]

{{{{{Buta}}}}}}
The poor thing, she must be really itchy! I have eczema, so I understand the urge to chew your own paws off!!! Thank goodness she has such a great mom to take care of her!!!!!

[Michael Romanos]

Hayashi - I will consult with vets here and find out for you if there is anything to relieve Buta's suffering and subside the dermatitis.

Linda - why not talk to a breeder at random with absolutely no axe to grind , just like I have. Here is one I haven't consulted and she lives in Canada and is a very nice youthful lady: Shelley of Raglans Pembroke Corgi Kennels. Do a search on the internet - she has a good website and all her contact details including email are mentioned. Shelley sent me a couple of photos of two of her dogs who are doing the show circuit - litter sister and brother - one red and white and one a tri, and they are both beautiful looking. They have a NZ parentage.

[Hayashi_eri]

thanks everyone! u guys are great. I have been asking around for recommendations of a good vet here in Singapore. Sadly the previous vet that Buta goes to, is not very helpful on finding any cure but instead she told me there is no cure & the only thing I can do is to feed her good supplements for the skin & immune system. She didn't even give any medicated wash or cream to ease the itch & pain.....definitely not going back there

[Chip's Mom]

I looked for dermatitis mange on the internet and couldn't locate it. There is treatments for most types of mange. Do you have a shortage of veterinarians in your country?

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Hayashi_eri

I feel that breeding should really be left to the professional breeders whom have done intensive research on the dog's health. Buta is a good example of a home breeder's mistakes. She has this hereditary dermatitis mange problem that is passed on by her mum.

Demodectic mange perhaps? I had marvelous success using ivermectin given orally for a senior foster boy I had. This was under veterinarian supervision of course. There are also dips, medicated baths that can also be used in conjunction with the oral meds or on their own. Working on her immunes system from the inside out with good diet and supplements is a very good course of action too.

Debbie

[Hayashi_eri]

Hi Chip's mom,

We have quite a handfu of vets in Singapore but I will say some are not as good...I have already received a recommendation from another Corgi owner (god bless him, he responded quickly to my thread in the Singapore forum & even gave me his mobile number)
I will be booking the appointment with this new vet this weekend hope everything goes well

[Dillydoodle]

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[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by bstreetcorgis

Hello,
My baby corgi is going into heat and I was wondering how long it usually lasts? Please and advise will help. Thanks

Back to the originally scheduled programming of this thread. A heat cycle runs three weeks generally speaking. Since this is her first heat, I'll guess your baby girl is between 6 and 9 months old. If you don't spay her, then you can look forward to this twice a year. Some of them, just like women, will PMS and have attitude and behavioral changes - grouchier, testier. You'll have about a week of that. Next comes a week of sluttiness and finally a week of a combination of both the previous weeks with a growing return to normal. There are the panties which you can have her wear, although with Pems, I've never had much luck with them staying on since there is no tail. I'm not sure what your home situation is, whether it is a house or apartment, fenced yard or not; but you may find a number of male dogs suddenly wanting to call your place "home" hanging about. Even with a fenced yard some of these dogs can be very clever, imaginative and inventive - it wouldn't be shocking to find your baby girl has been gotten out and taken off with a traveling sales dog or come home to find a second dog you didn't know you had in your fence. So short solution to that is to never leave her out unattended and be very careful when walking her. This is all just responsible management of an intact female.

Not having an idea whether there are breeding plans floating around in your thoughts or not, spaying after her first season would be a good idea and have long term health benefits for her as well such as reducing the risk of mammary cancers for example. (Susan, see I'm not anti-spay/neuter, just VERY opposed to mandatory spay/neuter being required by law. Big difference in an individual acting as a responsible pet owner and the agenda behind the MSN legislation. But I digress.)

As for Michael's comment: "I don't believe that dire risks associated with a healthy, strong female Corgi having at least one litter. are very great. I have delved into this quite extensively with leading Corgi breeders and with vets and the feedback is that the risk factors are minimal. I think some people will have you believe otherwise through a few specific incidences and in an effort to protect what they believe in."

Life is risky. We put a foot wrong in the morning getting out of bed and we could have a fall and break our necks. Dire risk, well the definition of dire can be somewhat subjective and open to interpretation by whomever is using it and depending upon the context. Many of us might see sky diving as taking a dire risk, those who enjoy it might not consider the risk dire at all. General vets would not see breeding as a dire issue. They are good on the mechanics, biology and science perhaps, but rarely understand the art of breeding. Even an experienced Breeder getting some vets to understand, "NO, I need to bring my girl in NOW, she is in distress." can be tricky. Breeders are maybe like sky divers, they know and "get" the risks involved, but just accept them as a part of breeding and prepare themselves to deal with them. So they may not necessarily consider the risks that DO exist as particularly dire either, rather a part of what they have committed to. What I do object to most strenuously is the attitude of "sure, go ahead and breed your girl, it isn't that big a deal, everything will be fine" without educating a novice potential breeder that there are indeed risks involved. Breeding and whelping a litter isn't a Disney movie.

In the US at least and from what breeders of both corgi breeds internationally post to the show lists (where the concentration of responsible Breeders exists) problem whelpings and/or problems with getting neonates started and surviving are more widespread than certain parties might want to believe. And unlike Michael, I don't limit my observations or knowledge to a small sample. In the past couple of months, an experienced Pem breeder lost all the puppies, even after having to do a c-section. My sister's latest Cardigan litter of 9 is gorgeous and thriving, but had she not left the dam at the vet's for IV's and supplementation right before she whelped (which it turned out she needed a c-section and it was a VERY good thing she was already at the vet's) the dam and all the puppies would most likely have been lost. Skochie is a very strong, healthy Cardigan and everything was done right with her. She is out of a litter of 10, all free whelped. Her dam is out of a litter of 13, all free whelped. Both of these girls were wonderful mothers. This is the kind of background one wants on a b*tch they are planning to breed, it is an indicator of how it will be able to handle a breeding, whelping and maternal duties. Skochie was taken in for x-rays to see how many puppies she was potentially carrying because of the history of litter size in her family. (Not always precisely accurate if there are a lot of puppies, but at least it prepares one for what they are in store for. IF there are only a couple of big puppies, then most likely a c-section is in order.) Four heads were found in the midst of a myriad of spines which indicated 8 to 9 puppies. Blood work found her to be in severe anemia (puppies were taking everything from her). The decision to leave her, put her on IV's and oxygen to help build her back up was made. This was around day 58. The following day, her temperature dropped and while she was stronger, she still didn't have the strength to whelp so a section was done. It took 5 incisions to get all the puppies out. Before whelping she was up to 44 pounds, afterwards she was down to 22-24. I stopped by after they got home to pick up something and saw mom and babies just after they got home. Skochie had the dazed look common just post anesthesia, was a bit confused and was going through the motions of being a mom. It takes a couple of days sometimes to get them back to normal and she's been a super mom. Puppies are now 4 weeks old and began their weaning the first of this week. Very lucky here, no one was lost. The future dilemma facing my sister as a breeder is, does she breed her again or should she breed her again given the way this deliver went? As of right now, this is a drop dead gorgeous litter. Time will tell in how they come on, but there are some definite positive contributions to the Cardigan gene pool in this whelping box now. This is another consideration Breeders face.

Now I'm not telling this as a "scare story" and the attitude I am writing this with is matter of fact, this is just something that happens. Every criteria Michael gave, this was a healthy, strong female Corgi and this was her first litter. Furthermore, in this case, there is known family history (on both sides), but especially the maternal on how smoothly this whelping should have gone, something, which is unknown by many who Michael are encouraging to breed. I'll let others decide whether there are dire risks and if they are very great. To quote LizM, from a recent discussion on another list concerning someone who let their year old pair mate: "Being there for our girls and being prepared for all common possibilities is the commitment we have as breeders bringing life into this world." What are being interpreted as scare stories by some, are common possibilities to those of us who have spent time in a whelping box.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

I talked to another breeder recently who has bred puppies for many years and her 5 yr old female pem corgi had to have a C section and all puppies were lost. She was very disappointed with herself that she didn't have the dog spayed but unfortunately didn't think about it during that very stressful time. This dog had other litters without any problems.

[Dillydoodle]

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[Michael Romanos]

I am not encouraging people to breed Corgis. I am encouraging people with mentally and physically healthy female Corgis not to have this fear factor placed arounf their necks which I think is an horrendously baseless exercise in this day and age. I've gotten down to a point where one prominent and regular breeder of Pems, has only heard on one case of a female succumbing in producing a litter - and that was through an undetected bad heart. The good breeders don't allow their females to have too many litters during their peak productive years. I don't think one to three litters for a healthy female Corgi is overstepping the mark.

[Scotchyroo]

Just thought I'd put my two cents in. I have a very nervous corgi (my little Pete), who sometimes gets a skin condition, a rash that causes him to scratch off his hair. A doctor friend of mine suggested cooking up some garlic with his rice and lamb at mealtime and also adding a small drop of tea tree oil to his shampoo when I bath him. The tea tree oil really seems to help.

Also, and totally unrelated, I have to ask, um.... my corgis are so uninterested in sex. Really. My older female, Jemima, is very handsome and her breeder wanted us to have one litter some years back, but she just wasn't having it, and my little male also has no interest. Has anyone else had this experience?? Some people I've met who love corgis note that they like that corgis aren't humpers like poodles or pugs.
I'd love to hear anyone's feedback.

[Michael Romanos]

Scotchyroo - if your Corgis have been 'fixed' then their interest in sex will be next to nothing and even their interest in the opposite sex (as in male-female) will be diminished. My Taylor is very keen on showing his maleness around females - he gives the choicest of them plenty of kisses behind their ears, he will be playful, and he will scrape the ground vigourously and stretch out animately - and they could be spayed females and on a couple of occasions, males when he gets the 'signals' all wrong. All my male Corgis have been the same.

[Dillydoodle]

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[corgimom]

Obviously, all the Corgi breeders who are members of their regional clubs were novices at one time - they all started with their first litter. But, I am going to assume that before they took the leap, they were well advised by others in what breeding Corgis may entail, that they had done lots of reading and research on producing sound and healthy pups with good temperaments, and that they were probably guided (in regards to their first litter) by another experienced Corgi breeder in getting themselves started; and would be willing as a breeder to stand behind their pups health. With each litter they bred, I would assume that they learned more.

Unlike someone who just decides to breed their female, just for fun, for the enjoyment of birth so their kids can witness it, or to make some extra money. Forget the health tests on the parents; they aren't necessary; and MAY offer a very short health guarantee.

Now Michael, from which breeder above would you choose your next pup? If it doesn't matter to you, then you should be comfortable with any pup that is available to you as long as it was bred from a "healthy, sound mother". Therefore, the gene pool/health history/temperament of BOTH parents should not weigh in as a factor in your decision nor should the experience in years of breeding matter, even if it is their first time.