Handling baby Corgis

[Michael Romanos]

I must say member Ineill84 who has left Go Corgi in a bit of a huff, at least had a partially correct breeder "friend' - a certain American Corgi breeder who won't let her baby puppies be seen or touched until they are 12 weeks old and won't let them go to new owners until they are 16 weeks old.

I asked NZ's Lesley Chalmers who exports many of her Pembroke puppies to many parts of the world, what's the go these days for prospective buyers and the three or four sets of litters she is breeder of annually.

Lesley says that she doesn't generally allow visitors up close with her baby puppies until the pups are about 7-8 weeks old. She says there are so many infections around these days so precautions are necessary. When Lesley returns home from a dog conformation show (she is a Corgi handler in the show ring and an international judge) she always changes her clothes and washes her hands before handling any young puppies.

So if a breeder lets you handle a five week old Corgi, they may be doing the puppy a big disservice.

[Chip's Mom]

Well Michael - I thought this topic had died a quick death - especially because it is Christmas. First of all, I am not sure if I will be able to handle the puppies. Secondly, there are germs everywhere. A breeder can pick up germs and carry it into the puppies just as quick as anyone else. Parvo lives in the soil and can be on your clothes, shoes, etc. A home or barn is full of germs and bacteria especially if you have multiple animals. Breeders also guarantee their puppies to be "vet checked" so they must take these puppies to the vet's office where there is germs everywhere. If the examination room table is not sterilized properly, there are germs, if a Vet or Vet Tech forgets to wash their hands, sterilize equipment, there are germs. Airborne diseases are everywhere. Life is a risk. I would also like to know how you can get a well socialized puppy that is 4 months old if only the breeder handles the puppies. What about the children that breeders make claim have handled their puppies. What about the colostrum that is a must for newborn puppies that give them the antibodies from their mothers? Vets dispute how long this natural defense system lasts and that is one reason why puppies are given 3 sets of puppy shots. I agree that if you go to a dog show that you should take extra precautions but that should be the norm anyway Is a corgi puppy so much more frail than a newborn baby that is born and goes home from the hospital in 24 - 48 hours? I have seen many a newborn babies out in Shopping malls, church, and other places and there is nothing more precious than human life. What about all the other animal species that are born in less than desirable circumstances? It wasn't many years ago when it was normal for puppies to leave their mothers at 6 weeks of age. Did people handle these puppies before they bought one? I am sure they did. What about hospitals and nursing homes where people take their therapy dogs. In the states, hospitals and nursing homes are full of staph. If their animal has a small, open wound that may not be noticable, that is an entry point for staph so do people not take their pets to nursing homes, etc? Life is a risk and I agree you take out insurance and use precautions but you also have to be realistic. I also refuse to pick out a puppy to bring into my home that may not fit in. A puppy is a life long committment and he or she MUST get along well with Chip. Chip is my first and utmost priority. The only way I am going to know this is by observation of this puppy interacting with the other puppies. If I thought I was putting these puppies at risk, I wouldn't go to see them and I also refuse to make Chips breeder wait for me to choose until these puppies are well past their puppy stage. I do believe that would be taking advantage of her generous offer.

[Dillydoodle]

Deleted my post

[Chip's Mom]

Emilie:

That is wonderful news - a new puppy. You must keep us posted and update frequently.

[ZdogZ]

Emilie and Bonnie - I CANNOT wait to see puppy pictures! Zia is growing so fast that she hardly looks like a puppy anymore!

For the record, I picked Zia out when she was 4 weeks old, and brought her home when she was 5 weeks and 3 days old.

[corgimom]

ZdogZ

I am really surprised that you got your Zia so very young. I am curious as to why the breeder let her go at 5 weeks?

[ZdogZ]

All of the puppies went home that weekend. The puppies were eating solid food, drinking water, and not nursing very much at all. They (the breeders) are ones who feel puppies may go home by 6 weeks. I got her on a Friday so that I would have the weekend with her before going back to work on Monday. She turned 6 weeks on the Tuesday after I got her.

[darci]

Bonnie,

I have to agree I thought this topic was discussed and over, not sure why it deserved a new thread. Hmmmm...

I wouldnt take a litter of 5-6 week old puppies to a parking lot and let every Tom, Dick and Harry or snotty nosed kids handle my pups. But for serious people looking for a puppy, and using common sense handwashing etc, I dont think them letting owners or possible owners to handle them or get to know them makes them a bad breeder.

Taking precautions is common sense not rocket science.

You cant put people or dogs in a bubble, we are exposed to germs on a daily basis, every door nob you touch every box of cereal you buy.

Every breeder is different and will choose to do things their way and it doesnt automatically make them a good or bad breeder.

Just because a breeder doesnt let people see or touch her puppies until 10-12 weeks doesnt make her a reputable breeder.

Just my honest opinion that it takes a lot more than that to make you a good or bad anything.

[glencorgi]

PWCCA Code of Ethics states puppies must be a minimum of eight weeks old before they can go to their new homes. CWCCA Code of Ethics says seven weeks. The seven week point is when puppies are supposedly in an imprinting stage and where there is going to a strong human/dog working bond needed (as in some of the sporting breeds and even some of the real serious performance competitors), many "old school" breeders feel that this is an optimum time to bring a puppy home. Reality is the majority of puppies are not going into such homes, they are going to be someone's beloved and cherished pet. The difference between 6 weeks and 8 weeks is very noticeable as far as maturity level, trainability, social skills with other dogs, bite inhibition ... the list goes on and on. The difference between 8 and 10 weeks is also markedly improved on an easier transisiton into the home. Add 2 more weeks and the new home has an even easier time. Just because puppies are weaned does not mean they are necessarily ready or should be sent to their new homes.

Initial visits from a serious potential puppy buyer can vary from breeder to breeder. Granted and I agree, breeders don't have open house with every Tom, Dick and Harry they got an e-mail or phone call from tromping thru for a visit. I doubt very much at this visit Bonnie will be able to determine if her pick will without question get along with Chip, much too young, but there will be some hints in how the puppy gets along in its litter dynamics.

As for Ineill84, at 22 years of age and her first forary into getting a corgi was at 14 ??? And she can speak in these absolutes??? It was fairly obvious her "black and tan" corgis did not come from the same background as her original corgi. Her "partially correct breeder "friend' " should have at least impressed correct color terminology on her. She was also not accurate on the herding titles, as AKC does not have a National Herding Championship title. Granted, the title thing can get a bit confusing. There are certain things which can punch holes in someone's credibility fairly easily.

Now this gave me a chuckle: "When Lesley returns home from a dog conformation show (she is a Corgi handler in the show ring and an international judge) she always changes her clothes and washes her hands before handling any young puppies." As someone who has been in the show ring, had young puppies at home and deals with rescues of unknown background, my initial reaction was "DUH!" The chuckle was because that is sooooo "normal" for Breeders - nothing unusual in that at all. While I take it as the norm, for some though it might be a revelation. There are also breeders who will not go near a show or even to their vet's office when they have a litter because of fear of bringing something home.

One can match reputation to reputation, years of experience to years of experience, and I doubt if one will find two breeders who do everything identically. There may be a lot in common, but I doubt if everything will identical. There very definite markers and parameters to identify a reputable and responsible Breeder and the same holds true of the other side of the breeding coin.

Debbie

Debbie

[darci]

Debbie,

I too had a chuckle, I work in family practice and when I come home from work the first thing I do is change clothes and wash up. I try to protect my family from my daily germs and I dont even have babies human or canine.

But I cant tell you how many times I get coughed or sneezed on during the day. No one covers their mouth anymore.

ETA: Ok not everyone coughs without manners, but some.....

[Chip's Mom]

I feel kind of foolish because I didn't even touch on that one. I guess I just took that as good old common sense. ujj yn:>?"'''''''' That was my Chiparoo saying hello everyone. He likes to stand on my keyboard and type with his nose. Clever corgi. LOL

[Michael Romanos]

Glencorgi - you have made far too much in that someone spoke of a national title when it may be some other less glorified success. It may just be what the writer was told. There are all kinds of competitions and events where a placegetter could lay all sorts of claims. Gee, in the USA there are probably at least four "national" organisations for agility and probably they all lay claim to various national titles. There are two agility groupings in NZ, both interconnected and both come up with national winners. Then if one wins in a zone competition here that could also construe as regional championships. And on it goes. Then there are team agility events here where the team winners could also claim to be national champions.

I think the DUH is on you because my informant was merely emphasising the care that is needed to avert unnecessary and potentially dangerous contact by humans with baby puppies. Whether it is obvious or not is immaterial.

[tandemgal]

Imagine being able to handle a human baby at our Christmas Eve X-Games! Lexie is only 4 weeks old.... a little common sense on the part of people goes a long way - that's my 2 cents...

[glencorgi]

Ineill84 - IF one is going to walk like a duck, talk like duck and act like a duck, well then they better be sporting feathers. She spoke in absolutes feigning great authority. When someone does that, then they best be able to back it up. I freely conceded titles can be very confusing and I can make a pretty educated guess as to the information she was told regarding the actual titles earned. Coincidentally, at the same time she was spouting off her absolutes, those who are and have been involved in corgi herding far longer than her ownership of corgis were doing a history of the breed(s) advancement in this activity. Unfortunately, 2 and 2 were not coming up to 4 in what she was relating according to those who have the t-shirts.

Actually the "DUH" seems to be more on you. To introduce a new thread passing along your informant's way of doing things, well I'm not sure if there was a need to name drop (btw, if you remember I have hired your informant for a judging panel) or that her practices were such a revelation to you that you felt the need to pass it along - I'm not sure. At least for me, it was exactly what I would have expected her answer and practices to be given the caliber of Breeder she is.

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

When I had my first Corgi at 21. I'm very pleased I didn't have Glencorgi to take a swipe at me for any mistakes I made or in passing on information that might be slightly askew and more than slightly innocuous.

I for one don't care who you have judging at your shows. Some judges are sloppy and their opinions not worth very much. Lesley Chalmers knows what I am doing and what information from her that I pass on as an informed opinion.