Pembroke & Cardigan Welsh Corgi

HoW.Corgi · 01-09-2007, 09:21 PM

I need help on ending playtime with my puppy, everytime I try to leave he bites me on the shin...

Michael Romanos · 01-10-2007, 02:59 AM

You have a very communicative Corgi - he is telling you that he wants to continue playing so please don't stop. When you want to finish playing, give your puppy an alternative thing to grab and bite into such as a strong quality squeaking toy or a ropey toy.
So if you have mastered the OUCH screech when your pup bites you (hard), then prasie and reward him with a small piece of treat and give him the alternative as per above.

Dillydoodle · 01-10-2007, 06:40 AM

Deleted my post

Jespah · 01-10-2007, 08:49 AM

Hi HoW.Corgi,

When you say "leave" what do you mean? Is he left somewhere alone where he can't see you or others, or in crate, ...?

I agree with Emilie, don't reward him for biting - dogs are literal and will interpret the treat as motivation for continuing the behavior. When I go to work, I give my dogs each a treatball. It's something they love, it signals that I am leaving and it is something they now look forward to.

When you are finished playing with the pup, have something special he likes that you give to him - a special chew toy, a small cardboard box or empty toilet paper roll to tear up, etc. This will teach him that there are other good things to do and that play time with you is over. It still sounds like he could use some more leash walks to tire him out.

Bayoucorgi · 01-10-2007, 11:27 AM

I have to admit to being a little frustrated here HOWcorgi. You keep asking for help but you aren't willing to do what it takes to make him stop. Several others have also told you that what I advise IS effective. YOU can stop his biting IMMEDIATELY if you will do what I told you to do on the other thread.

The more I read about Yoshi the more I'm convinced that this is a dominance issue. The part you said on the first thread about him biting your pants leg and looking right at you is strong evidence. Fear-biters avert eye contact. He is literally daring you to make him stop. The fact that he is trying to manipulate you into continuing play time by biting is further evidence that he believes he is the boss of your relationship.

Before you can be successful at puppy kindergarten or creating a pleasant playtime end you must correct the primary imbalance in your relationship. You CAN do it yourself if you really want to. Or you must find someone experienced in dogs to help you in a hands-on situation.

Please stand up from the computer and do this right now. Put a leash on the dog whenever you interact with him. If he bites the leash, lift the leash quickly and smoothly straight up (not jerking). It will pull the leash out of his mouth unpleasantly. Do not say anything to him. Just lift straight up whenever he thinks about biting the leash. It's as if the leash is making the correction.

Create calm routines for problem times. Do a practice playtime. When YOU are ready to end, pick up the leash. Decide on a "end" phrase. I usually say "okay enough fun for now". With leash in hand, stand up and pat him and move away. If he starts to bite pick straight up on the leash and give him your command to cease.

Again, you must have and enforce a "NO MOUTH CONTACT" rule. It is an absolute commandment. If he tries to bite, simply work your way down the leash until you have your hand on his collar and grab his muzzle (nose and mouth) firmly in your other hand. The cool thing about this is when you are holding his mouth closed he cannot bite you. Squeeze pretty tightly so he cannot break away. Look him right in the eye and command him not to do it. If he tries to bite as soon as you let go, then you did not hold on long enough or squeeze tight enough.

With a dog like this that has gotten away with it for so long (his whole life up to now) you may have to be rough with him. Remember that he is currently prince of his world and you are attempting to end his reign. He is not going to give this up lightly just because you want it to be that way. He will fight with all his little four-month-old soul. You MUST prevail. You must hold his muzzle, shake his face, and tell him NO - quietly and firmly in his face. You must hold on no matter how he struggles and whines and paws at your hand and rolls his eyes and tries to convince you that you are killing him. When he submits he will stop struggling. He will break his eye contact and look down.

You are not hurting him. You are making him stop hurting you.

Michael Romanos · 01-10-2007, 04:35 PM

In another thread, HoW says that the pup is now responding correctly to OUCH most of the time. So it appears screeching OUCH is now effective.
I believe the timing of giving praise/ treat for positive action is important so that the dog does not associate the treat or praise with unwanted acts or deeds but for the action or deeds following the adverse ones. This goes for anything from biting people to leash pulling.
I have reservations about HoW in the sense of exaggerating the situation.

HoW.Corgi · 01-10-2007, 05:35 PM

i am sorry because i cannot fit my whole hands around his muzzle. But everything is going good right now..

i'll update if something happens ty

Dillydoodle · 01-10-2007, 05:47 PM

Deleted my post

corgimom · 01-10-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoW.Corgi

i am sorry because i cannot fit my whole hands around his muzzle. But everything is going good right now..

i'll update if something happens ty

How.Corgi,

I think BayouCorgi has given you some great advice, but you seem to want to find excuses to not use it. She is really trying to help you learn to be in control of your puppy - if it were me and I was in your situation, I would follow her advice.

glencorgi · 01-11-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoW.Corgi

i am sorry because i cannot fit my whole hands around his muzzle.

This is a four month old Pembroke puppy here, not a Saint Bernard. I am short, petite and have small hands and there is not a corgi here, Cardigan or Pembroke, adult or puppy that I can't get my hand around their muzzle. Sorry, your excuse just isn't going to fly.

Debbie

Cheetah · 01-11-2007, 12:38 AM

I agree with NOT giving treats for this behavior. I also wouldn't keep playing, even though the pup is asking for it. YOU are the one who initiates play and YOU are the one who ends it. Not him.

If he is responding to the "OUCH!" then I would just keep doing that. Do you pull your hands (or whatever he is biting) away or do you freeze?

01-09-2007, 09:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
HoW.Corgi Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12	Ending playtime I need help on ending playtime with my puppy, everytime I try to leave he bites me on the shin...

01-10-2007, 06:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dillydoodle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,422	Deleted my post Last edited by Dillydoodle; 04-16-2007 at 11:54 AM.

01-10-2007, 08:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jespah Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,024	Hi HoW.Corgi, When you say "leave" what do you mean? Is he left somewhere alone where he can't see you or others, or in crate, ...? I agree with Emilie, don't reward him for biting - dogs are literal and will interpret the treat as motivation for continuing the behavior. When I go to work, I give my dogs each a treatball. It's something they love, it signals that I am leaving and it is something they now look forward to. When you are finished playing with the pup, have something special he likes that you give to him - a special chew toy, a small cardboard box or empty toilet paper roll to tear up, etc. This will teach him that there are other good things to do and that play time with you is over. It still sounds like he could use some more leash walks to tire him out. __________________ Deb Toronto, ON, Canada Rupert Jemma

01-10-2007, 11:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bayoucorgi Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 207	No bite, happy thoughts I have to admit to being a little frustrated here HOWcorgi. You keep asking for help but you aren't willing to do what it takes to make him stop. Several others have also told you that what I advise IS effective. YOU can stop his biting IMMEDIATELY if you will do what I told you to do on the other thread. The more I read about Yoshi the more I'm convinced that this is a dominance issue. The part you said on the first thread about him biting your pants leg and looking right at you is strong evidence. Fear-biters avert eye contact. He is literally daring you to make him stop. The fact that he is trying to manipulate you into continuing play time by biting is further evidence that he believes he is the boss of your relationship. Before you can be successful at puppy kindergarten or creating a pleasant playtime end you must correct the primary imbalance in your relationship. You CAN do it yourself if you really want to. Or you must find someone experienced in dogs to help you in a hands-on situation. Please stand up from the computer and do this right now. Put a leash on the dog whenever you interact with him. If he bites the leash, lift the leash quickly and smoothly straight up (not jerking). It will pull the leash out of his mouth unpleasantly. Do not say anything to him. Just lift straight up whenever he thinks about biting the leash. It's as if the leash is making the correction. Create calm routines for problem times. Do a practice playtime. When YOU are ready to end, pick up the leash. Decide on a "end" phrase. I usually say "okay enough fun for now". With leash in hand, stand up and pat him and move away. If he starts to bite pick straight up on the leash and give him your command to cease. Again, you must have and enforce a "NO MOUTH CONTACT" rule. It is an absolute commandment. If he tries to bite, simply work your way down the leash until you have your hand on his collar and grab his muzzle (nose and mouth) firmly in your other hand. The cool thing about this is when you are holding his mouth closed he cannot bite you. Squeeze pretty tightly so he cannot break away. Look him right in the eye and command him not to do it. If he tries to bite as soon as you let go, then you did not hold on long enough or squeeze tight enough. With a dog like this that has gotten away with it for so long (his whole life up to now) you may have to be rough with him. Remember that he is currently prince of his world and you are attempting to end his reign. He is not going to give this up lightly just because you want it to be that way. He will fight with all his little four-month-old soul. You MUST prevail. You must hold his muzzle, shake his face, and tell him NO - quietly and firmly in his face. You must hold on no matter how he struggles and whines and paws at your hand and rolls his eyes and tries to convince you that you are killing him. When he submits he will stop struggling. He will break his eye contact and look down. You are not hurting him. You are making him stop hurting you.

01-10-2007, 05:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dillydoodle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,422	Deleted my post Last edited by Dillydoodle; 04-16-2007 at 11:53 AM.

01-10-2007, 02:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 5,188	You have a very communicative Corgi - he is telling you that he wants to continue playing so please don't stop. When you want to finish playing, give your puppy an alternative thing to grab and bite into such as a strong quality squeaking toy or a ropey toy. So if you have mastered the OUCH screech when your pup bites you (hard), then prasie and reward him with a small piece of treat and give him the alternative as per above.

01-10-2007, 04:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 5,188	In another thread, HoW says that the pup is now responding correctly to OUCH most of the time. So it appears screeching OUCH is now effective. I believe the timing of giving praise/ treat for positive action is important so that the dog does not associate the treat or praise with unwanted acts or deeds but for the action or deeds following the adverse ones. This goes for anything from biting people to leash pulling. I have reservations about HoW in the sense of exaggerating the situation.

01-10-2007, 05:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
HoW.Corgi Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12	i am sorry because i cannot fit my whole hands around his muzzle. But everything is going good right now.. i'll update if something happens ty

01-11-2007, 12:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cheetah Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 398	I agree with NOT giving treats for this behavior. I also wouldn't keep playing, even though the pup is asking for it. YOU are the one who initiates play and YOU are the one who ends it. Not him. If he is responding to the "OUCH!" then I would just keep doing that. Do you pull your hands (or whatever he is biting) away or do you freeze?

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Pembroke & Cardigan Welsh Corgi

Ending playtime