Tails on in Britain

[Michael Romanos]

Heard that England and Wales will join Scotland in a month or two in banning the docking of Pembroke Corgi tails - I think an exempion in at least one of these sub-countries is if the Corgis are used as working farm dogs but these dogs who do get an exempion will probably not able to be exhibited at conformation shows though foreign owned Pems who are docked will be ok. Sounds like there are a few ways round these laws.
It seems the knots are tightening on the Pems. Changes in Britain will probably be a important platform for anti-docking regulations coming into the USA and so on.

[bec]

Very interested to hear how this pans out.
People will quickly find loop holes, and seems like this legislation might have a few of them..

As an owner of 2 tailed pems, the tail docking debate always hits close to home. My two are often treated like walking time bombs..
No explosions yet I am glad to report

[Michael Romanos]

My next Pem might very well be a tailed one. I am not looking forward to it. A lot will be lost even if a tail or two will be saved. In time a natural tail-less Pem will be barred from the show ring!

[Pawsies]

I live in England and I don't like it.

Why?

Because my cardigan is already called a pem or a 'Queen's corgi dog' and I feel now that it will be harder to distinguish the two breeds. The differences now are the coat colours and the head shape but to the average Joe, these breeds now look the same and will be called the same.

However on the upside I think it is important for dog communication purposes to have a tail.

[bec]

I don't really think that docking the tail can be justified just so that people can tell the difference between the two breeds. there are so many ways to tell the cardi and the pem apart, maybe people just need to be educated a bit more to recognise these differences.

Reasons such as tail injuries, back-problems or hygiene are different.
But I don't think we can fight to remove the tails of these dogs purely because of the way we want them to look.

Here in Australia, evidence of tail injuries, hygiene issues or back problems in tailed corgis is very few and very far between.

Obviously this is an issue that everyone is passionate about. It's hard to find someone that doesn't have an opinion about it. It is hard. I have no doubt that we all love our corgis. It's hard not to.

They are the best breed of dog in the world.

Would love to hear other peoples opinion on the issue.

[Michael Romanos]

It is going to make the word "Corgi' much more important because the two Corgi types will be pretty well indistinguishable to any but some enthusiasts.
There is one Cardi in the WWCWC who looks so much like a Pem except no Pem I have seen has such a deep red coat - you have to wear sunglasses for eye safety.

[glencorgi]

I find it a bit ironic that the animal rights activists have no problem promoting/pushing and insisting on invasive surgeries such as castration and ovahysterectomies, but consider procedures that have no health risks associated with them and help define breed type, such as docking, cruelty. My preference is that they keep their (censored) hands off and out of my breeds.

Debbie

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by bec

Would love to hear other peoples opinion on the issue.

I personally think it should be left up to the breeder. The puppies are not hurt as much as the AR people would have you belive. The nerve endings are not complete as newborns and a puppy is normally docked between 1 and 3 days old.

And yes, this is another issue being pushed by AR groups. It's got nothing to do with their concern for the welfare of the dogs but with the ability to control what we can and can't do with out pets.

Peggy

[Clogs]

Originally Posted by taflar

I personally think it should be left up to the breeder. The puppies are not hurt as much as the AR people would have you belive. The nerve endings are not complete as newborns and a puppy is normally docked between 1 and 3 days old.

Peggy

I haven't ever de-tailed a dog, but I've done plenty of lambs. The ones you do at one day old simply don't seem to notice it - you band them and let them go and they just wander away back to their mamas. But the ones done at six weeks, when farmers generally do them, are a different story - they lie down and writhe around and definitely are not happy animals for a while. So yeah - if they are done early, I have no problems about it at all.

[bec]

Originally Posted by taflar

I personally think it should be left up to the breeder. The puppies are not hurt as much as the AR people would have you belive. The nerve endings are not complete as newborns and a puppy is normally docked between 1 and 3 days old.

And yes, this is another issue being pushed by AR groups. It's got nothing to do with their concern for the welfare of the dogs but with the ability to control what we can and can't do with out pets.

Peggy

That is a fair point Taflar.

Sad thing is, that before legislation here in Australia, registered breeders that did not dock puppies (or gave you the option to have your puppy left with its tail) were very very rare.

There really wasn't a choice for breeders that wanted to show their corgis regardless.

Corgis with tails are not readily accepted in the show ring. In fact, in the small number of cases that a tailed corgi entered the ring pre-legislation, they were considered somewhat of a freak. As breeder's can't pick which pup is show quality at 3 days of age, the complete litter was docked.
If you wanted an undocked pembroke corgi, the only way to get one was from a back yard breeder (which to me, is not an option).

I know that traditionally pems are docked. People aren't used to seeing them with tails at all. When I first got Douglas (which was a few months after the introduction of the legislation) people were always asking me what he was crossed with..

Now, 18 months down the track, I am always stopped in the street and told how lovely he looks and how lucky that he was to keep his beautiful tail..

[Michael Romanos]

All the leading Pembroke Corgi breeders in New Zealand and a few I know about in Australia use the band method with three day old pups which presents the pups with a bit of discomfort for a few hours at most, then they forget about it and the tail eventually withers off. No vet, no surgery, no delay, no growth spurt of tail.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by bec

Corgis with tails are not readily accepted in the show ring. In fact, in the small number of cases that a tailed corgi entered the ring pre-legislation, they were considered somewhat of a freak. As breeder's can't pick which pup is show quality at 3 days of age, the complete litter was docked.
If you wanted an undocked pembroke corgi, the only way to get one was from a back yard breeder (which to me, is not an option).

I see you already understand why a whole litter is docked. You're right a breeder wouldn't have a clue at 3 days old who would be a show prospect and who isn't.

And I agree about tails in the show ring. Here in the US the standard says the tail should be docked as short as possible without being indented. If I were judging, I'd take the tail into consideration and consider the dog not in standard. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I like the docked look.

IMO, it's not something that should be FORCED on us. Not something any goverment should be mandating. It should be left to the breeders if they want to dock tails or not.

And yes, the parent club (in the US the PWCCA) should have the right to leave the standard as it is and a tail should be a fault.

JMO.

Peggy