Bathing the Corgi

[TheGoldenCorgi]

I read that it is unnecessary to bathe them at any point in time under 5 months since their immunities are just starting to develop.

Anyways, long story short, my idiotic brother decided that our little friend was smelly because of accidents and decided to give him a bath when I was asleep.

The puppy is 1 day shy of 12 weeks old and the shampoo he used was for Dogs and Puppies. The green bottle labeled Sergeants shampoo for ticks and fleas.

The back says not to use on puppies under 12 weeks of age. That would mean a day too soon.

But even then, most training books say not to bathe until 4-5 months of age.

My vet has said that it is okay to bathe them but just be careful and gentle.

When I heard the guy making puppy noises from inside, I knew he had gotten bathed and my brother heard the longest lecture and yelling in his life.

I completely dried the little guy off though and he seems fine at the moment. Do you guys think bathing him a day too soon from the recommendations of the shampoo bottle did harm?

[BannaOj]

hmmm, I have never heard of that. I have bathed puppies far far younger, when the mother was unable to clean up after them, and most of mine get pretty regular baths every several weeks after 3 months of age.

I highly doubt your dog is in any danger, although unless there is a problem I tend to stay away from flea and tick shampoos because of the extra meds in them. One day shouldn't make any difference.

The most important things are 1) make sure all soap is rinsed off and 2) to keep the puppy warm until it is dry.

[glencorgi]

I doubt it did any harm. Like AJ, I've bathed pupies younger than that using specialty puppy shampoos (very gentle).

Debbie

[BannaOj]

With my 10 puppy c-section litter, where the mother wasn't a great mother, although she did nurse them, we would wash the puppies in a production line in popcorn bowls. One bowl of warm soapy water (to dilute an already gentle shampoo further) then one bowl of warm rinse water, and then a towel person at the end to dry the puppy, and I'd turn the temperature up in the whelping box for a couple hours until they were completely dry.

[Michael Romanos]

If I was a Corgi breeder and my Corgi pups were gong to new homes, I would ensure that they were bathed and cleaned before they went off to a new owner. The real good quality dog shampoos that are on the market are no problem for a two month-three month Corgi pup's coat and skin.

[TheGoldenCorgi]

Originally Posted by BannaOj

I highly doubt your dog is in any danger, although unless there is a problem I tend to stay away from flea and tick shampoos because of the extra meds in them. One day shouldn't make any difference.

The most important things are 1) make sure all soap is rinsed off and 2) to keep the puppy warm until it is dry.

There isn't really a problem because I gave him Advantage with Heartworm Protection drops 3 weeks ago. But that shampoo that we had was for puppies and had flea and tick prevention in it.

Originally Posted by glencorgi

I doubt it did any harm. Like AJ, I've bathed pupies younger than that using specialty puppy shampoos (very gentle).

Debbie

I have a question though. When is it actually ok to really bathe them and when is it a no-no? I know obviously the first few weeks is a no but after 5-6 weeks is ok?

Originally Posted by BannaOj

With my 10 puppy c-section litter, where the mother wasn't a great mother, although she did nurse them, we would wash the puppies in a production line in popcorn bowls. One bowl of warm soapy water (to dilute an already gentle shampoo further) then one bowl of warm rinse water, and then a towel person at the end to dry the puppy, and I'd turn the temperature up in the whelping box for a couple hours until they were completely dry.

wow 10 corgi litter? that must be something to see lol. I see your idea behind the bathing though. that makes sense to dilute it.

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

If I was a Corgi breeder and my Corgi pups were gong to new homes, I would ensure that they were bathed and cleaned before they went off to a new owner. The real good quality dog shampoos that are on the market are no problem for a two month-three month Corgi pup's coat and skin.

yeah the breeder did actually give him a bath before he left. she told me she has given him 2 baths total. once at 6 weeks and once before he left (10 weeks). she said to do it very gentle normally with a warm wet towel and then quickly dry him off and make sure the environment he is in while drying off is warm and not cold.

[BannaOj]

I think you are looking for a hard and fast rule where there isn't one. My general rule of thumb would be if they are old enough to play outside and get muddy they are definitely old enough for a bath, but that's just me.

With extreme circumstances like the 10 puppy litter I am described, we sponge bathed from very young, as we would have to stimulate them to poop and pee after feeding as well. (normally the mother does this by licking them, and will eat the infant feces as well) Ciara nursed them but we had to do a large amount of formula supplementation, especially at the beginning. These were also unusually small puppies that were on the edge of viability when they were born. They had hair but were very premature, and underweight at 4-5oz (113g to 140g, and there was one that probably was only 100g.) I am and always will be proud of the fact that all 10 puppies that left the vet's office lived to become normal adults. #11, that didn't make it was the one that got stuck in the birth canal and caused the c-section to begin with. A normal puppy should open its eyes around 14 days (two weeks-ish), these didn't open their eyes til about 21 days (3 weeks-ish).

In this sort situation there is even more risk of a compromised immune system than a normal litter, and in theory you should probably avoid bathing, but we didn't have a choice. Because Ciara had a c-section she didn't get all of the hormonal surges that happen during a natural birth. I had to forcibly hold her down to nurse them for several days, and was just happy that she eventually did let them nurse on her own and didn't reject the litter entirely.

As a result, Ciara couldn't/didn't keep up with the poop and pee clean up completely so we had help her the best we could. I went through boxes of baby wipes first, and then about the time their eyes opened we went to the "popcorn bowl" baths. We were very careful to keep them warm above everything else, and none of them ever got sick.

I was concerned about whether Ciara was just a naturally "bad mother" or if it really was the large litter/c-section issues, and worried a bit about what would happen with her daughters when they were bred. Two of them have now been bred and had average-sized 6-7 puppy litters with good birthweights and both were excellent mothers, so I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it doesn't apear to have been passed on to future generations.

Whelping Shelby, Ciara's daughter was the first "normal" whelping I did on my own (although Shelby's owner was there to help) It was amazing to me, that the "runt" of Shelby's litter, was 10.5 oz newborn, double what her mother's birthweight was, and the largest puppy was 15oz, which was triple!

[TheGoldenCorgi]

Originally Posted by BannaOj

I think you are looking for a hard and fast rule where there isn't one. My general rule of thumb would be if they are old enough to play outside and get muddy they are definitely old enough for a bath, but that's just me.

With extreme circumstances like the 10 puppy litter I am described, we sponge bathed from very young, as we would have to stimulate them to poop and pee after feeding as well. (normally the mother does this by licking them, and will eat the infant feces as well) Ciara nursed them but we had to do a large amount of formula supplementation, especially at the beginning. These were also unusually small puppies that were on the edge of viability when they were born. They had hair but were very premature, and underweight at 4-5oz (113g to 140g, and there was one that probably was only 100g.) I am and always will be proud of the fact that all 10 puppies that left the vet's office lived to become normal adults. #11, that didn't make it was the one that got stuck in the birth canal and caused the c-section to begin with. A normal puppy should open its eyes around 14 days (two weeks-ish), these didn't open their eyes til about 21 days (3 weeks-ish).

In this sort situation there is even more risk of a compromised immune system than a normal litter, and in theory you should probably avoid bathing, but we didn't have a choice. Because Ciara had a c-section she didn't get all of the hormonal surges that happen during a natural birth. I had to forcibly hold her down to nurse them for several days, and was just happy that she eventually did let them nurse on her own and didn't reject the litter entirely.

As a result, Ciara couldn't/didn't keep up with the poop and pee clean up completely so we had help her the best we could. I went through boxes of baby wipes first, and then about the time their eyes opened we went to the "popcorn bowl" baths. We were very careful to keep them warm above everything else, and none of them ever got sick.

I was concerned about whether Ciara was just a naturally "bad mother" or if it really was the large litter/c-section issues, and worried a bit about what would happen with her daughters when they were bred. Two of them have now been bred and had average-sized 6-7 puppy litters with good birthweights and both were excellent mothers, so I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it doesn't apear to have been passed on to future generations.

Whelping Shelby, Ciara's daughter was the first "normal" whelping I did on my own (although Shelby's owner was there to help) It was amazing to me, that the "runt" of Shelby's litter, was 10.5 oz newborn, double what her mother's birthweight was, and the largest puppy was 15oz, which was triple!

Wow it was really 11 newborns. That's quite alot. I never heard of any more than 8.

I'm glad that things all worked out for the best and that the trait was not past down genetically. I somehow doubt that having X newborns in a litter is genetically dependent.

Thanks for your input though. And yeah although it was indirect, I was looking for a hard and fast rule of thumb. Heh you read me well.

[BannaOj]

Poor #11 never actually took a breath. He was the only brindle boy in the litter too. The grand total was 3 red boys, 2 red girls, and 5 brindle girls. Glyph that I kept is one of the red girls. Shelby was a brindle girl and the first champion from the litter, and I've got 2 gorgeous brindle boys from her litter so it's worked out.

AJ

P.S. There is a concern among some Cardi breeders that c-sections are on the rise, and that the ability to free-whelp is being lost in the breed. In my case, we tried everything else before doing the c-section and it was that or lose everybody including the mother. I think the concern may be a bit alarmist, but I was relieved that both of her daughters free-whelped just fine. I have no idea of the state of the Pembrokes in that regard.

[TheGoldenCorgi]

Originally Posted by BannaOj

Poor #11 never actually took a breath. He was the only brindle boy in the litter too. The grand total was 3 red boys, 2 red girls, and 5 brindle girls. Glyph that I kept is one of the red girls. Shelby was a brindle girl and the first champion from the litter, and I've got 2 gorgeous brindle boys from her litter so it's worked out.

AJ

P.S. There is a concern among some Cardi breeders that c-sections are on the rise, and that the ability to free-whelp is being lost in the breed. In my case, we tried everything else before doing the c-section and it was that or lose everybody including the mother. I think the concern may be a bit alarmist, but I was relieved that both of her daughters free-whelped just fine. I have no idea of the state of the Pembrokes in that regard.

Hmm I never knew that cesarean sections were getting common in Cardigan dams.

I do know however they are most common in larger breed dogs like English Bulldogs and what not.

I never heard of Pembrokes requiring cesarean sections but I'm quite sure it has happened.

[glencorgi]

As AJ said, there isn't a hard and fast rule or magic age number when to give a bath. In nature, providing all has gone well with the dam, puppies are being bathed as soon as they are born; "mom" is always cleaning them. With AJ's c-section litter, I feel "bathing" in the manner she did was in a sense an imitation of nature and far healthier on their immune systems than leaving all the "crud" on them. We use a lot of baby wipes to assist "mom" and especially after they begin having gruel as a part of the weaning process.

C-sections are on the rise in Cardigans, closing in on the frequency that they are needed in Pembrokes. C-sections are very common in Pembrokes (in the US at least) and not the easiest of breeds to whelp, nor are the puppies the easiest to get going. From what Michael says breeders tell him, NZ may still be blessed with many free whelping lines. It isn't usually the large breed dogs that require sections, rather it is the toy breeds. English Bulldogs, Pugs, French Bulldogs, etc., sections are common in them because of the head size of the puppies. Brachycephalic breeds commonly need sections to the point of it is just routine.

In Cardigans at least, 10 or 11 puppy litters are not that unusual. I have a great, great grand daughter of a dam that had 13 puppies, all free whelped and all survived. There were 8 in her litter, but we will be monitoring her closely when the time comes for her to be bred in the distant future.

Debbie