Selling Price

[Chip's Mom]

I called this morning and asked the hip question and she didn't have a clue. Her pups are 6 - 7 weeks - must be 2 litters and she has two females she breeds. She had also advertised awhile ago. I asked about health guarantee and she said I could swap one out after a visit with my vet. She also said that her first litter (last fall) was 8 puppies. Is that a large litter for first time around? I know Chip's breeder has an average of 3 or 4 puppies in a litter. Chip came from a litter of 2.

[corgimom]

Deb,

My curiousity got the best of me and I called the # in the Classifieds. She sounded like she was a bit older and said they have been breeding Corgis for 16 years

She was not a member of the Regional club


She said they are 8 weeks old and sold on limited registration and that
she guarantees their hips or any other congential defect until they are 5 years old, she would give you another dog and she said in 16 years, has never had eye problems and only 2 hips problems and no vWD problems.

She said the sire was 10 years old and the female was 5 and this was
her second litter, but probably her last, because she had to have a C-section and the pregnancy was difficult on her. She said she did not have a lot of Corgis, and this would probably be her last litter for this year She has someone coming tomorrow to pick up a puppy and has sold 5 so far - she was selling pups from two different litters.

And wouldn't you know, I got distracted by my daughter when I was
on the phone with this woman and forgot to ask her if she required
a contract

Oh yes, she did mention that she owned both parents and that they
are distantly related - she said that line breeding was okay, but would
never inbreed with close relatives.

She also said that she used the band method on the tails instead of
docking because that way, there would be no stub.



Anyway, that is the scoop.

linda

[corgimom]

Chips mom,

I don't think 6 to 8 pups is that unusual - I think that is more the norm??

Linda

[Chip's Mom]

They have quite a few babies for being so little

[Michael Romanos]

Linda - the breeder with Corgis pups for sale seems ok to me. She seems to have all bases covered very well.

[corgimom]

Michael,

She semed knowledgeable, but I still would not want to buy a puppy with there being no testing done on the parents for at least hips and eyes.

linda

[glencorgi]

Well Linda it is better than I had anticipated, however as you noted, not all bases were covered. On the plus side she did seem knowledgeable you said; selling at 8 weeks is okay, the 5 year guarantee on congenital defects is pretty good - although there are things that can come up later in life such as degernative myleopathy. Limited registration is a big plus. Owning both parents is a reason for a hmmm, but not necessarily always a negative. C-sections do cut into the amount that can be made on a litter. While I am not opposed to anyone coming out ahead monetary wise on a litter (the money basically goes back into the dogs anyway); depending on phrasing about a section can expose a lot about someone's attitude on breeding. Hips and eyes are problems in the breed and breeding stock should be tested. vWD is in the breed, but the lack of reliability with the various means of testing it is not something I would be a stickler about. A breeder should at least be aware of and know about it though.

Genetic testing and health screenings are more of an expectation in the US than in other countries. I know some people who last fall imported a couple of Cardigan puppies from Europe (not the UK) as hopefuls for the show ring and future breeding programs. At maybe just a year now, both have come up symptomatic of hip dysplasia and it has been confirmed with x-rays. All hopes and dreams involving them have been dashed.

As for the call Chip's Mom made - these didn't happen to be Pembroke Welsh Courgis did they? There was an ad not long ago in your area for those. <eyes rolling> My sources in E TN said there were several ads for "Christmas" puppies and have been 2 or 3 ads this year so far.

One thing I believe a potential buyer should expect from a breeder is for the breeder to at least know what the health issues are for whatever breed they are breeding.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

They were the other side of Greeneville. I asked if she had advertised awhile ago - which may have been around Christmas time and she said yes. She has 2 adult females. The pups are 8 weeks old and 7 weeks old so must be 2 litters. I misspoke in my first post on the age.

[Michael Romanos]

Linda - I think one can be over-zealous. Good if you can get it ie tested pups/parents but as I said before, it is uncommon for pups to be tested for genetical problems before selling by the breeder in NZ unless the particular breed is a very high risk factor or it is specified in any arrangements beforehand. Many breeders know the background of the pups' parents, grandparents etc so that any future problems are minimised. That's probably a factor why the Corgi breeder you are disecting has placed a 'five year money-back guarantee' on their Corgi pups.

[corgimom]

Michael,

I wouldn't expect the pups to be tested, but the parents should be - also,
how could one be assured that in 5 years she would even still be breeding?

linda

[Michael Romanos]

The breeder may not be operating as a breeder in five years or even in six months, but she still might be living and/or placed whatever guarantee she has committed to with a legal firm or insurance company or family members. Pehaps her written obligations are sufficient proof of her sincerity or honest endeavours. If everything else about the breeder - gee it sounds as though she is been crucified or put through the wringer - runs true, why wouldn't a commitment to health issues?

[Chip's Mom]

When we got Chip, I didn't even ask about hips or eye testing. They say ignorance is bliss! But, if he by chance did develop something like this I wouldn't send him back. Is this what some people would do? I would just deal with it. There probably is alot of small breeders out there that don't know anything about these tests either. Unfortunately, people see profit to be made in having puppies and don't realize the work involved. There is a pair of corgis not far from where I live that live outside all the time and will be bred as soon as the time is right. Sad - I wouldn't buy from this person.

[corgimom]

Michael,

she wasn't put through the ringer, I have no idea where you got that from,
but basic testing on the sire and Dam should be the the basic thing done here, I know you said that was not the norm where you are.

I guess you have not been paying any attention to what Deb was saying that a good breeder should at least do. This woman I spoke to sounded decent and sincere, however, it would be each individuals choice if they wanted to buy a puppy without any testing being done on the parents and take that risk and take "her word" that there is not anything negative in their health history. If one chooses to buy, fine for them, if not, that is fine also and one should not be made to feel bad because they want a bit more .

I go back to my mother in law with the two Bostons from the same litter where they each had to have an eye removed when they were 1 1/2 years old - don't you think some eye testing on the parents would have
been a responsible thing the breeder should have done? Even after my mother in law told her about the eye problems and that "you really should not be breeding those dogs", the woman did anyway.

linda

[corgimom]

Chips mom,

you are so right, who in their right mind would give the dog back after 5 years, or even 1 or two. We love our animals and would do whatever we could for them.

Linda

[Chip's Mom]

Linda:

I understand exactly what you are saying and I completely agree with you. That must have been so hard for your mother in law to go through and her babies. People look at $ signs and not animals. - Sad