Puppy Classes

missfancypants25 · 01-16-2008, 02:18 PM

For Christmas this year my mom bought puppy classes for me and Waeryn. We had our first class last Tuesday and our second one last night. The classes are once a week for six weeks and are one hour long. This post is just about my experiences at class and it’s pretty long, so if you don’t want to read the whole thing it’s ok. I’m not asking any questions or anything in it.

In the first class there were a lot of people and dogs and Waeryn was very distracted at first. I was a little embarrassed because they gave us something to sort of screen her off from the other dogs so she would stop barking. I didn't feel bad for long because before I knew it they were borrowing half of my screen to give to another dog, handing out water bottles, and putting gentle leaders on a couple. A lot of the dogs were really excited and it took kind of a long time for things to get quiet. Once the dogs were a little more comfortable, we started with something called the Name Game. It's where the instructor calls your dog to distract him/her and you're supposed to call their name and praise and treat as soon as they look at you. There are two instructors in our class so they each started on opposite sides of the room. Waeryn and I were the first ones to go on our side and I was really nervous. I thought I was going to have to give the "But she always does it at home" excuse. To my delight, Waeryn looked at me IMMEDIATELY, just like she does at home (it helps that the breeder started calling her by her name at 4 weeks of age though)! We did it one more time and the instructor said that we should end there because she's doing exactly what I ask.
Next we practiced sit and down, which Waeryn already knows, but she's never done it with that many distractions so it was a really good chance for us to get used to that. She didn't do nearly as well as she does at home, but that's to be expected.
Towards the end of class we had recess, but the instructors said that ideally it will usually fall in the middle of the class period. They wanted to do it at the end the first time so they could get a better idea of how they were going to section off the room. They ended up dividing it into two sections: big dogs and kindergarten. They had Waeryn go over in the kindergarten section and I was a little worried that she might get too crazy and jump on the dogs that were smaller than her (like she does to the cats), but she was very calm and cautious about the whole thing.

This week was even better for me because one of the instructors called and asked if Waeryn and I could start coming to a later class. When I got there I discovered that the later class was half of the original class, they had split it up based on which dogs would work best in the same class. I liked this a lot better because it gave us more room and a little less distractions, but still had enough puppies in it.
We started with the name game to get their attention, and then started working on “heel.” They had us start with our puppy in front of us, then lure them around with a treat so that they are facing forward and on our left side, then have them sit. I think Waeryn was doing pretty good with that one, but I had a little trouble maneuvering because I had to have the treat in my left hand so it would be closer to Waeryn which meant that the leash was in my right hand. It was awkward for me to have the leash in my right hand, but Waeryn on my left side.
Next we did “watch me” which was where we had to get our puppy looking directly into our eyes. Waeryn normally looks at my eyes anyway when she’s paying attention to me, but this way I’ll be able to get her to look at my eyes whenever I need her to pay attention to me.
The next thing we did was “off.” We held our hand in front of our puppy’s face (with a treat in our fist) and just let them lick and try to get the treat, but the second they took their nose off of our hand we said “good!” and gave them the treat. This was quite time consuming for me because Waeryn didn’t give up on the treat nearly as fast as the other pups. She licked and licked my hand trying to shove her tongue between my fingers and at one point reached up and tried digging at my hand. The instructors wanted to use her as an example, so they took her to the middle of the room and tried the same thing. When Waeryn still wasn’t giving up on the treat the instructor showed us how to give them a few LIGHT taps on the nose with our fist until they backed off. This worked very well with Waeryn and now when I say off she backs up a step and lays down.
Lastly (at the end of class again) we had recess. This time I asked if Waeryn could be in with the big dogs, since there was only two of them. They were a Husky named TuTonka and I think a Boxer named Joe. They were both significantly bigger than Waeryn (especially Joe), but it seemed to go pretty good. The only problem was that Joe and TuTonka seemed to keep stepping on Waeryn when they tried to play with her. The first time she got stepped on by TuTonka, she backed up really fast and ended up going between Joe’s legs. Pretty soon she was able to stay out from under their feet pretty well. I did notice that for a time she was walking around sniffing and licking the floor, finding treats that had been dropped. She was more interested in the food than the other dogs!
So far Puppy Classes have been a great experience for us as we are both learning a lot of new things! I look forward to them every week. I’m sorry this ended up being so long, but I wanted to share my experience with anyone who wants to read it. Another reason that it’s so detailed is so that if anyone who hasn’t gone to puppy classes yet wants to kind of get an idea of what they’re like, they can just read this. I know that before I went I didn’t really know what to expect.

Whitney

MyPemCharlie · 01-16-2008, 03:00 PM

What a great Christmas gift! Sounds like you and Waeryn are learning lots of great stuff. I don't agree with the instructor suggesting tapping the dog's nose as a correction (I know your not "hitting" or hurting her, but that is an "old-school" training method). Other than that one thing, the training seems terrific! Keep us posted on her progress.

missfancypants25 · 01-16-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

I don't agree with the instructor suggesting tapping the dog's nose as a correction (I know your not "hitting" or hurting her, but that is an "old-school" training method). Other than that one thing, the training seems terrific! Keep us posted on her progress.

I know, I felt a little uncomfortable about that too. When I did it myself it was more like a few gentle pushes, but doing it with my fist didn't make me feel good. Even if I didn't like it, it did work and now she knows what to do when I say "off" so that part is over with at least.

MyPemCharlie · 01-16-2008, 03:56 PM

There is no "perfect" trainer on earth. They're all human, just like the rest of us. Overall, your classes sound really good so far.

What I learned with my last dog, was to trust my instincts. If the trainer was doing something that my dog was not comfortable with, or I was not comfortable with, we "excused" ourselves to the sidelines and worked on our own, until the next section of training. (One instructor had us working on a hot asphalt parking lot in the summer, and I could tell his paws were burning. We excused ourselves to the grass under the shade tree and worked on Sits and Downs for a bit.) It's your money and your dog, so if you don't feel right about something, it's your choice to sit out a section.

Chip's Mom · 01-16-2008, 04:09 PM

Chris - You give excellent advice. Reminds me of the aluminum pie pan that my instructor uses to teach a dog not to jump on you. My Chip is a jumper and she never used it on him. she is really good about reading people and their dogs so she knew I didn't like it. Chip still jumps sometimes but when I say down he stops. LOL

Michael Romanos · 01-16-2008, 05:27 PM

I would not recommend tapping a Corgis nose or muzzle in order to gain control. A tap could turn into a slap or a hit. Simple as that.

missfancypants25 · 01-16-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

I would not recommend tapping a Corgis nose or muzzle in order to gain control. A tap could turn into a slap or a hit. Simple as that.

I can see how that might happen. Maybe if a person is just tapping their dog, but they end up frustrated they could end up doing it too hard without meaning to.

Peggy · 01-17-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

When Waeryn still wasn’t giving up on the treat the instructor showed us how to give them a few LIGHT taps on the nose with our fist until they backed off.

Do you mean pushing back at the nose with your closed hand? Or tapping on top of the muzzle?

I can see pushing back/tapping the nose with the closed fist. It does not result in a hit, it's just barely pushing back as the dog is nosing or pushing your hand with it's nose in an attempt to get the treat. Hard to describe without having a visual to show it.

Peggy

missfancypants25 · 01-17-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peggy

Do you mean pushing back at the nose with your closed hand? Or tapping on top of the muzzle?

I can see pushing back/tapping the nose with the closed fist. It does not result in a hit, it's just barely pushing back as the dog is nosing or pushing your hand with it's nose in an attempt to get the treat. Hard to describe without having a visual to show it.

Peggy

It was pushing back at the nose with my closed hand, not tapping on the muzzle.

Michael Romanos · 01-18-2008, 01:15 AM

A Corgi could take exception to this in a way that they would be fearful of a hand (front wise or the back of a hand) thrust or offered to them for any kind of reason, and that would probably promote an adverse reaction.

MyPemCharlie · 01-18-2008, 08:27 AM

Well, I'm still having a hard time getting my arms around this one. Encouraging the dog to do something "bad" (try to get the treat), in order to teach something good (Off!) seems like the dog is learning a game of "Let me test you to see if you'll give me the treat by nudging and licking your hand." You say "Off!" and gently push the dog back, then give it the treat for giving up and sitting a few seconds. It seems like the dog just learned to nudge and lick your hand anytime you're holding something yummy.

I would have preferred for you instructor to teach "Wait", where you can actually leave the treat on the floor and make the dog wait (in Sit or Down) until you release him/her with "Free" or "OK".

"Off" is my cue word for "No jumping up on people", not "Nudge my hand so I can make you wait to get the treat".

I may be missing something here, and I do know that training methods vary. I never try to entice a bad behavior in order to train a good behavior...Charlie does the bad behaviors naturally without my help. LOL

glencorgi · 01-18-2008, 09:35 AM

Okay, I get this, part because I've been in a training class where something similar was done and partially because of something I learned and witnessed come together at a herding clinic I was at last weekend.

Chris said:

Quote:

Encouraging the dog to do something "bad" (try to get the treat), in order to teach something good (Off!) seems like the dog is learning a game of "Let me test you to see if you'll give me the treat by nudging and licking your hand."

Another way to look at it is you are giving the dog the freedom to think and make correct choices. I'll admit this is not an exercise I might have expected to find in a first class; to me having a better foundation of "watch" and wait might have helped. The nudging with the fist - well, it certainly isn't going to lead to a sock in the jaw as some are "fearing." I'm with Chris in not quite getting how this is going to teach "off" as in not jumping up on people, but maybe time will tell.

In the class I did, we sat on the floor in front of our dogs (they were in a sit) with lots of treats and played "take it/leave it". Hand open, treat on palm - if the dog was told take it - they got the treat immediately, if the dog was told to leave it, it was supposed to wait until the take it command was given. If the dog didn't leave it, then the treat would be closed up in the fist and some nudging might be needed. This was also an exercise where the dogs were taught to take treats gently from a hand.

It will be interesting to hear how following classes go.

Debbie

MyPemCharlie · 01-18-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencorgi

In the class I did, we sat on the floor in front of our dogs (they were in a sit) with lots of treats and played "take it/leave it". Hand open, treat on palm - if the dog was told take it - they got the treat immediately, if the dog was told to leave it, it was supposed to wait until the take it command was given. If the dog didn't leave it, then the treat would be closed up in the fist and some nudging might be needed. This was also an exercise where the dogs were taught to take treats gently from a hand.

Debbie

Now that description (Take it/Leave it) makes perfect sense to me, and a gentle nudge seems like something a mother dog might do to her pup to keep it away from something it's not suppose to have. (Not hurtful and not leading to a hit.)

I play "Take it/Leave it" with a squeaky toy in one hand or on the ground, and a treat for correct behavior in the other hand.

fogebotom · 01-18-2008, 10:56 AM

I was a little confused on the way "off" was taught too. I teach focus first and foremost in class then when the dog has a reliable reaction to their name and will focus on me, then we move to round robin recall-which is similar to the whole name game you played but it's 4-8 people and one dog in a circle and dog is passed from person to person who is calling their name.

As far as wait/leave it, yes, wait is taught after focus so as I come near something that I want the dog to leave alone, if they see the treat or toy, I say leave it-say name or look at me and reward for leaving it alone. If it's say a plate of food in the house, I teach it by asking for a site, taping the plate with a stern voice like I'm mad at the plate and say leave it or no, leave it.

Otherwise, sounds like a great class. But the most important thing to work on for now is the focus--as dog with good focus is always looking at you for more!

MyPemCharlie · 01-18-2008, 12:23 PM

Cindy,

That's a very good point about focus. About 4-6 weeks ago I was looking for more tips on a reliable recall and other advice. We had seemed to hit a bit of a slow-down in our progress. I ran across an article called something like, "Does your dog know his name?".

I thought, "Of course Charlie knows his name. He knows "Sit, Down, Wait, Stand, Come (most of the time) and a couple of 'party tricks'. I often start commands with his name and end successes with 'Good boy, Charlie'. Sure, Charlie knows his name."

Just to prove it (to myself), I spun my desk chair to face Charlie. He was sitting in "his" recliner nicely chewing a toy. I said, "Charlie." in a neutral volume positive voice. He didn't look at me! Just a wee glance, then back to chewing.

I said, "Charlie, Sit". He sat up and looked at me. "Charlie, Down"...he laid down and looked at me. A little bit later I tried just "Charlie."...No Response. I had to laugh at myself, for not realizing that my dog didn't pay much attention to (or seem to know) his name! We spent 3 days training and treating him for giving me intent eye contact when I said nothing but "Charlie".

Teaching him to focus on me when I say his name has helped immensely in continuing our training (especially off leash). It should be among the very first skills learned for every puppy.

(Just a side note: I think he actually 'knew his name'...but I had never taught him that any action was required of him when I said his name until we worked on it.)

01-16-2008, 02:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
missfancypants25 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 142 Images: 8	Puppy Classes For Christmas this year my mom bought puppy classes for me and Waeryn. We had our first class last Tuesday and our second one last night. The classes are once a week for six weeks and are one hour long. This post is just about my experiences at class and it’s pretty long, so if you don’t want to read the whole thing it’s ok. I’m not asking any questions or anything in it. In the first class there were a lot of people and dogs and Waeryn was very distracted at first. I was a little embarrassed because they gave us something to sort of screen her off from the other dogs so she would stop barking. I didn't feel bad for long because before I knew it they were borrowing half of my screen to give to another dog, handing out water bottles, and putting gentle leaders on a couple. A lot of the dogs were really excited and it took kind of a long time for things to get quiet. Once the dogs were a little more comfortable, we started with something called the Name Game. It's where the instructor calls your dog to distract him/her and you're supposed to call their name and praise and treat as soon as they look at you. There are two instructors in our class so they each started on opposite sides of the room. Waeryn and I were the first ones to go on our side and I was really nervous. I thought I was going to have to give the "But she always does it at home" excuse. To my delight, Waeryn looked at me IMMEDIATELY, just like she does at home (it helps that the breeder started calling her by her name at 4 weeks of age though)! We did it one more time and the instructor said that we should end there because she's doing exactly what I ask. Next we practiced sit and down, which Waeryn already knows, but she's never done it with that many distractions so it was a really good chance for us to get used to that. She didn't do nearly as well as she does at home, but that's to be expected. Towards the end of class we had recess, but the instructors said that ideally it will usually fall in the middle of the class period. They wanted to do it at the end the first time so they could get a better idea of how they were going to section off the room. They ended up dividing it into two sections: big dogs and kindergarten. They had Waeryn go over in the kindergarten section and I was a little worried that she might get too crazy and jump on the dogs that were smaller than her (like she does to the cats), but she was very calm and cautious about the whole thing. This week was even better for me because one of the instructors called and asked if Waeryn and I could start coming to a later class. When I got there I discovered that the later class was half of the original class, they had split it up based on which dogs would work best in the same class. I liked this a lot better because it gave us more room and a little less distractions, but still had enough puppies in it. We started with the name game to get their attention, and then started working on “heel.” They had us start with our puppy in front of us, then lure them around with a treat so that they are facing forward and on our left side, then have them sit. I think Waeryn was doing pretty good with that one, but I had a little trouble maneuvering because I had to have the treat in my left hand so it would be closer to Waeryn which meant that the leash was in my right hand. It was awkward for me to have the leash in my right hand, but Waeryn on my left side. Next we did “watch me” which was where we had to get our puppy looking directly into our eyes. Waeryn normally looks at my eyes anyway when she’s paying attention to me, but this way I’ll be able to get her to look at my eyes whenever I need her to pay attention to me. The next thing we did was “off.” We held our hand in front of our puppy’s face (with a treat in our fist) and just let them lick and try to get the treat, but the second they took their nose off of our hand we said “good!” and gave them the treat. This was quite time consuming for me because Waeryn didn’t give up on the treat nearly as fast as the other pups. She licked and licked my hand trying to shove her tongue between my fingers and at one point reached up and tried digging at my hand. The instructors wanted to use her as an example, so they took her to the middle of the room and tried the same thing. When Waeryn still wasn’t giving up on the treat the instructor showed us how to give them a few LIGHT taps on the nose with our fist until they backed off. This worked very well with Waeryn and now when I say off she backs up a step and lays down. Lastly (at the end of class again) we had recess. This time I asked if Waeryn could be in with the big dogs, since there was only two of them. They were a Husky named TuTonka and I think a Boxer named Joe. They were both significantly bigger than Waeryn (especially Joe), but it seemed to go pretty good. The only problem was that Joe and TuTonka seemed to keep stepping on Waeryn when they tried to play with her. The first time she got stepped on by TuTonka, she backed up really fast and ended up going between Joe’s legs. Pretty soon she was able to stay out from under their feet pretty well. I did notice that for a time she was walking around sniffing and licking the floor, finding treats that had been dropped. She was more interested in the food than the other dogs! So far Puppy Classes have been a great experience for us as we are both learning a lot of new things! I look forward to them every week. I’m sorry this ended up being so long, but I wanted to share my experience with anyone who wants to read it. Another reason that it’s so detailed is so that if anyone who hasn’t gone to puppy classes yet wants to kind of get an idea of what they’re like, they can just read this. I know that before I went I didn’t really know what to expect. Whitney

01-16-2008, 03:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,155 Images: 20	What a great Christmas gift! Sounds like you and Waeryn are learning lots of great stuff. I don't agree with the instructor suggesting tapping the dog's nose as a correction (I know your not "hitting" or hurting her, but that is an "old-school" training method). Other than that one thing, the training seems terrific! Keep us posted on her progress. __________________ Chris & Charlie He Ain't Heavy, He's My Corgi!

01-16-2008, 03:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,155 Images: 20	There is no "perfect" trainer on earth. They're all human, just like the rest of us. Overall, your classes sound really good so far. What I learned with my last dog, was to trust my instincts. If the trainer was doing something that my dog was not comfortable with, or I was not comfortable with, we "excused" ourselves to the sidelines and worked on our own, until the next section of training. (One instructor had us working on a hot asphalt parking lot in the summer, and I could tell his paws were burning. We excused ourselves to the grass under the shade tree and worked on Sits and Downs for a bit.) It's your money and your dog, so if you don't feel right about something, it's your choice to sit out a section. __________________ Chris & Charlie He Ain't Heavy, He's My Corgi!

01-16-2008, 04:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chip's Mom Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northeast TN Posts: 2,243 Images: 3	Chris - You give excellent advice. Reminds me of the aluminum pie pan that my instructor uses to teach a dog not to jump on you. My Chip is a jumper and she never used it on him. she is really good about reading people and their dogs so she knew I didn't like it. Chip still jumps sometimes but when I say down he stops. LOL __________________ Bonnie A Good Home, Loving Family and Three Loyal Corgis at my feet - I am truly Blessed.

01-18-2008, 08:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,155 Images: 20	Well, I'm still having a hard time getting my arms around this one. Encouraging the dog to do something "bad" (try to get the treat), in order to teach something good (Off!) seems like the dog is learning a game of "Let me test you to see if you'll give me the treat by nudging and licking your hand." You say "Off!" and gently push the dog back, then give it the treat for giving up and sitting a few seconds. It seems like the dog just learned to nudge and lick your hand anytime you're holding something yummy. I would have preferred for you instructor to teach "Wait", where you can actually leave the treat on the floor and make the dog wait (in Sit or Down) until you release him/her with "Free" or "OK". "Off" is my cue word for "No jumping up on people", not "Nudge my hand so I can make you wait to get the treat". I may be missing something here, and I do know that training methods vary. I never try to entice a bad behavior in order to train a good behavior...Charlie does the bad behaviors naturally without my help. LOL __________________ Chris & Charlie He Ain't Heavy, He's My Corgi!

01-16-2008, 05:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,902 Images: 2	I would not recommend tapping a Corgis nose or muzzle in order to gain control. A tap could turn into a slap or a hit. Simple as that.

01-18-2008, 01:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,902 Images: 2	A Corgi could take exception to this in a way that they would be fearful of a hand (front wise or the back of a hand) thrust or offered to them for any kind of reason, and that would probably promote an adverse reaction.

01-18-2008, 10:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
fogebotom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 239 Images: 3	I was a little confused on the way "off" was taught too. I teach focus first and foremost in class then when the dog has a reliable reaction to their name and will focus on me, then we move to round robin recall-which is similar to the whole name game you played but it's 4-8 people and one dog in a circle and dog is passed from person to person who is calling their name. As far as wait/leave it, yes, wait is taught after focus so as I come near something that I want the dog to leave alone, if they see the treat or toy, I say leave it-say name or look at me and reward for leaving it alone. If it's say a plate of food in the house, I teach it by asking for a site, taping the plate with a stern voice like I'm mad at the plate and say leave it or no, leave it. Otherwise, sounds like a great class. But the most important thing to work on for now is the focus--as dog with good focus is always looking at you for more! __________________ Cindy and the crew at Foggy Bottom www.foggybottomusa.com

01-18-2008, 12:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,155 Images: 20	Cindy, That's a very good point about focus. About 4-6 weeks ago I was looking for more tips on a reliable recall and other advice. We had seemed to hit a bit of a slow-down in our progress. I ran across an article called something like, "Does your dog know his name?". I thought, "Of course Charlie knows his name. He knows "Sit, Down, Wait, Stand, Come (most of the time) and a couple of 'party tricks'. I often start commands with his name and end successes with 'Good boy, Charlie'. Sure, Charlie knows his name." Just to prove it (to myself), I spun my desk chair to face Charlie. He was sitting in "his" recliner nicely chewing a toy. I said, "Charlie." in a neutral volume positive voice. He didn't look at me! Just a wee glance, then back to chewing. I said, "Charlie, Sit". He sat up and looked at me. "Charlie, Down"...he laid down and looked at me. A little bit later I tried just "Charlie."...No Response. I had to laugh at myself, for not realizing that my dog didn't pay much attention to (or seem to know) his name! We spent 3 days training and treating him for giving me intent eye contact when I said nothing but "Charlie". Teaching him to focus on me when I say his name has helped immensely in continuing our training (especially off leash). It should be among the very first skills learned for every puppy. (Just a side note: I think he actually 'knew his name'...but I had never taught him that any action was required of him when I said his name until we worked on it.) __________________ Chris & Charlie He Ain't Heavy, He's My Corgi! Last edited by MyPemCharlie; 01-18-2008 at 12:37 PM.

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