First "Period"

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by rme147

Is my 5month old female corgi pup suffering when my 5 year old (fixed) doxin mounts her? She whines, and I make him stop when I'm here, but I want to know if it is bad for her? Is it painful for her? Could we maybe re-focus?

She's not "suffering" per se, but she's obviously not happy about it. He doesn't have to do that, you can teach him to stop.

This can be a dominace behavior too. I'd suspect that's what he's doing.

I promise the breeding topic will be MUCH more researched before we even think about starting.

Glad to hear that.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by LaRogue

If someone wants to breed animals for profit they should buy a farm with livestock, not a dog, JMO.

Oh, I agree, I was just answering the question as to *why* some would start breeding at an early age. It's the $$$ not the welfare of the dog they're intrested in.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

I don't think Peggy you have the full picture or even half of it.

[Dillydoodle]

I think Peggy has nailed it ... I don't understand why there are so many people out there that think that just becuase they have two corgis ( more than likely back yard bred, considering that if they purchased them from reputable breeders they would have been sold on spay/neuter contracts) that they should breed them... why? If it is about the money, there are other, easier ways to make a buck. If a person is so interested in breeding , they should do their research BEFORE they get the dogs... they need to make sure they are getting puppies from QUALITY, HEALTH TESTED parents, not just from someone who has two corgis that have a litter of puppies... They should also realized that just becuase you have two puppies from wonderful stock , doesnt mean that those puppies will grow up into dogs that SHOULD be bred... they might not compliment each other... There is more to it than just putting two dog's together to have puppies...

Michael, i dont know why you feel peggy doesnt have a full picture, i think YOU don't have a full picture and maybe you should book a flight to the US and take a look around and see how purebred dogs are produced... and go to some BYBs and see the priorities... look at DESTA's story for an example of what happens around here day in and day out with puppy mills and byb's..


Emilie

[MyPemCharlie]

It's just plain silly to tell someone who has dedicated years of her life to responsible, ethical breeding that she doesn't have half the picture. If Peggy doesn't have half the picture, then most of the rest of us only have about one percent.

[Peggy]

Thank you Emilie and Chris.

Peggy

[LaRogue]

Oh, I agree, I was just answering the question as to *why* some would start breeding at an early age. It's the $$$ not the welfare of the dog they're interested in.

I know and I thank you and everyone else who listed the reasons. The stories of Desta, the little puppy that can't eat, and all the others make me so angry. I always wonder where people keep their brains when they are so eager to jump willy nilly into breeding dogs, or encouraging others to do so.

[Michael Romanos]

There are other reasons for breeding dogs as young as 14 months other than money - just ask the breeders who breed occasionally etc from females at ages under 2 years. That's the "other half of the equasion."

[pembrokewcorgi]

I usually stay away from these types of discussions as they can get quite heated. First, I'm a Corgi owner, not a breeder. I went to school and passed my boards to be a Certified Veterinary Technician. I researched for 10+ years before getting my first PWC boy.

I had the chance to 'get' a puppy from an 'oops' breeding. The girl had a female who got bred on her first heat. She decided to register them as PWCs once they were born since they looked pure PWC--she doesn't know if it was her male PWC had done the job or her neighbors unneutered male did it. I still cringe to this day. NO--I did not take up the offer. Even though I no longer work at this clinic--I have heard that she is still breeding this PWC girl.

For me at that time as a novice dog owner, my thoughts went to thinking about how old dogs are to how old people are when they have children. If you look at a chart that looks at the size of the dog breed and compare the ages to humans, you find that a 1 year bitch runs about the age of a 15 year old girl. So we ask a still growing and developing being to now focus all this growing and development on the new beings formed inside? (Dog Life Chart-Mid Page*)

I know in the past and still in places of the world, children/teenagers are still being wed and having babies when they are still young AND we as the human race were doing this not too long ago in history. BUT we are living longer and allowing our children to mature enough before pushing them to have 'grandchildren.'

I can only think of one animal (and I am sure they may be a few others out there) that needs to be 'bred' before a certain age--the Guinea Pig. They hip bones fuse after a certain age and should not be bred if they pass this age. If allowed to be first bred after this age, the cannot give birth which means death for mom and baby.

I did my research, found a breeder who let me have one of her precious puppies and have been having a great run ever since. I know she did the proper testing on her girl and the results were good on the sire. Those of Porter's siblings and other 'family' connections which are being shown or thought as possible breeding stock have tested well for their health clearances. However my poor Porter got hit with the genetics mess stick. I have the best temperament and loving guy who got stuck with bad hips and elbows. So even with all the testing, the issues can still crop up. I found out Porter's sire while tested above par came from English stock that had spotty if no testing at all--he is now neutered.

Sorry for the rambling. The main thing as your run of the mill person who actually took the time to do the research (which I know many people are more impulsive--and less likely to research) is having that thought in the back of my head. Why put a young growing body through all that body stress when they should have the chance to mature as they should.

Going back to my corner.

*could not find the one site I wanted that was veterinary related but the information on this page was pretty much what I wanted to share

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

There are other reasons for breeding dogs as young as 14 months other than money - just ask the breeders who breed occasionally etc from females at ages under 2 years. That's the "other half of the equasion."

Those breeders do not breed a corgi on the first heat cycle or try to get as many litters as possible from her. Those practices are out of step with today's thinking.

And the ones that do breed before age two usually do OFA prelims and it's much closer to 18 mos. or just under age two. Not 14 mos. or less.

Spend some time doing corgi rescue in the US or on the rescue lists in the US and you'll see the whole picture.

Peggy

[glencorgi]

[quote=Michael Romanos;40477]There are other reasons for breeding dogs as young as 14 months other than money - /QUOTE]

So why don't you share the reasons?

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Debbie - ask legitimate breeders who follow such practices and report back to Go Corgi giving quotes and contact details.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Debbie - ask legitimate breeders who follow such practices and report back to Go Corgi giving quotes and contact details.

Well A) in the US I am not going to find a "legitimate" Breeder who will breed at 14 to 16 months. It simply isn't done here among Breeders who have the stature and reputation Lesley has in NZ. They adhere to the Code of Ethics set forth by the PWCCA (and are the ones who came up with it).

And B) you are the one that supposedly knows the reasons and why the question was asked of you. So are you now telling us you can't give any examples of reasons?

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

I can produce a number of reasons but I'll let you do the work since you dispute that it is legitimate practice in certain cases.

[glencorgi]

I don't need to do the work, I already know -- I would sincerely like to hear in what cases you consider it a legitimate practice.

Debbie

PS: And my source for knowing would be Dr. Hutchinson, DVM - one of the leading and most respected reproductive veterinarians in the US - repo guru to the dog fancy as well as commercial breeders.