Pems with Tails

[Dillydoodle]

Ok, so I am fascinated by this correct and incorrect rear assembly and where the tail ( foxy vs spitz) fits in.. Does anyone have photos of correct vs incorrect pems with tails( tall order here LOL!) and could tell WHERE they are incorrect in the photo ... I am just dying to see the difference.

I have two pems that are quite different in body structure (despite what people who see us walking think " oh , twins???" sigh) The rear ends move differently... and i do see a difference in where the tail would be ... if that makes any sense, one of them seems to have the nub where the tail would be higher than the other... so now i am curious...

Emilie

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Dillydoodle

Ok, so I am fascinated by this correct and incorrect rear assembly and where the tail ( foxy vs spitz) fits in.. Does anyone have photos of correct vs incorrect pems with tails( tall order here LOL!) and could tell WHERE they are incorrect in the photo ... I am just dying to see the difference.

Tall order - not sure of any sites with this on it like there are for Cardigans. It is also much easier to have a copy of the illustrated standard and see the write ups on the rears, skeletal, how the angles are supposed to be etc. And then see dogs in the flesh, watch them move and how the tails are carried. One year at the TN Picnic, we had a breeder judge do the "best tail on a Pem contest." That was really interesting, as she has judged all over the world, including the Scandinavian countries which were the first to ban docking. She and a friend have brought back several tailed Finnish imports.

It is common in the photos for the tails to appear down - that's natural when they are relaxed, get them on the move and you'll see the tails come up and usually over. Another thing about Pembroke tails, one can see a variety of lengths due to the natural bob gene. So one can see anything from a true bunny butt, 1/2 tails, 3/4 tails to full length. All will have to be acceptable under the current requirements.

In going through some of the photos here and other places:
http://www.cwcorgi.com/Aragorn/Pem_with_tail.jpg
This is a show photo, can't tell anything really about the rear in relation to the tail because the dog isn't set up, but that is a pretty close to a correct tail set. Tail set and tail carriage are not the same thing.

Quick, take the photo now. - Corgi Photo Gallery
This looks like it might be Abby (?). Her tail set looks to be a little low.

bob
This is Chessy and Bob, Bob is set just a bit low. He's also a natural bob tail.

Here's the judging from the 2004 TN Picnic
tn04picnic6
Mama Precious has a correct Pem tail. There are pictures of her scattered on some of the other pages as well.

I have two pems that are quite different in body structure (despite what people who see us walking think " oh , twins???" sigh) The rear ends move differently... and i do see a difference in where the tail would be ... if that makes any sense, one of them seems to have the nub where the tail would be higher than the other... so now i am curious...

Oh absolutely they can have different tail sets. The amount of turn of stifle, length of hocks, angles all effect how they move and how much drive they have in the rear. IF the angles aren't balanced with those in the front assembly, then that will make impact movement as well.

Debbie

[Dillydoodle]

Debbie,
Thanks for the photos and explaination. the best tail photo was interesting, it reminded me of the finnish spitz... and if you look at a photo of one of those dogs, there are some striking similarities to the pem.. (I think) . The other thing was bob... and his natural bobbed tail... it is really long! i am surprised, i really thought a natural bob tail corgi would be way shorter... are any born completely tailless? have you ever had one turn up in a litter of puppies?

Funny, i think that if a Pembroke HAS to have a tail, that the tail that looks like it "fits" best on a pembroke is that foxy looking tail like Abby's... rather than the spitz tail...

Emilie

[LaRogue]

With different countries doing different things about the tail, where does that leave someone who wants to show their Pembroke in more than one country? I think I read somewhere that tailless dogs can be shown in countries where docking has been banned (not 100 % certain on that), but can a tailed English dog be shown in the US?

Many, many years ago, my sister had a corgi born with a natural bob. It was pretty short, but I always thought it looked kind of scruffy and strange.

[glencorgi]

The other thing was bob... and his natural bobbed tail... it is really long! i am surprised, i really thought a natural bob tail corgi would be way shorter... are any born completely tailless? have you ever had one turn up in a litter of puppies?

"Bob" is about a 3/4 length natural bob. Natural bobs can be anywhere from nearly tail less to the 3/4 length. No real uniformity. I've not seen one in a litter of puppies, have a foster with about a two inch natural bob though.

With different countries doing different things about the tail, where does that leave someone who wants to show their Pembroke in more than one country? I think I read somewhere that tailless dogs can be shown in countries where docking has been banned (not 100 % certain on that), but can a tailed English dog be shown in the US?

Pretty much now with the restrictions, no more docked dogs can be shown in countries where the docking ban is in place. The exception being if the dog was docked before a certain date, it can still be shown.

The standard for PWC's in the US has no disqualifying faults, so taking that at its literal value, anything can be shown - fluffies, whitelies, bluies, tails beyond what the standard calls for. Any trait like though is supposed to be severely faulted. There have been an imported tailed Pem or two shown in the US, did not get their championship though.

And yes, I think some of the tails can look pretty scruffy. The fox type tail is more aesthetically pleasing, but I have my Cardigans for their fox like brush. The Spitz tail is the correct one for Pems.

Debbie

[MyPemCharlie]

Charlie was one of a litter of eight puppies. His breeder told me 4 of them were born with bob tails, but she didn't record which ones as they were all too long to meet the AKC standard, so all 8 pups were docked to meet the standard length. I do think Charlie's tail should have been docked a little shorter. Seems like he has a longer nub than most - he's right at the 2" limit.

[Peggy]

Think of the Pem with a correct tail set as having a "squared off rear" and the the Cardi haveing a slight slope to the rear, not as squared off as a Pembroke.

I would venture to say most natural bobtails are not short enough to meet the US standard and are docked to remove the tail.

I personally have never had a natural bob tail of any length. All my puppies have been born with full length tails.

Peggy