front feet with east/west defect

[kalima62]

Hi... I have a P:W.C with a East/west defect that i noticed only at 3 months. His father is an italian top dog , winner in 2006 in Finland and the 2006 most requested stud dog , shire of many top dogs. Now my questions to the experts are: how is this defect possible in my dog and also i would like to know if i must avoid breeding him in case the defect in the offspring occurs if it may EVER occur at all!! Thankyou.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by kalima62

Hi... I have a P:W.C with a East/west defect that i noticed only at 3 months. His father is an italian top dog , winner in 2006 in Finland and the 2006 most requested stud dog , shire of many top dogs. Now my questions to the experts are: how is this defect possible in my dog and also i would like to know if i must avoid breeding him in case the defect in the offspring occurs if it may EVER occur at all!! Thankyou.

Recessive genes, most faults are caused by recessive genes. That means that both is parents carry it and he got one gene for turned out feet from each parent.

So, if you were to breed him all he has to pass on to his kids would be a gene for turned out feet. There is no way to know if a female you'd breed him to has the gene or not. Things like this can be carried for generations and only the right (or wrong) paring can make it show up.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

The front feet fault your Corgi carries more than likely occurred through his mother and not his stud dog dad. My Taylor has a front fault and so does a litter brother. The breeder retired Taylor's mother from her breeding programme after this result but still uses the father ( a New Zealand grand champ and also a Canadian and Australian champ) as a stud dog. And the rest of Taylor's litter brother and sisters have done well in the show ring and for breeding.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by kalima62

Hi... I have a P:W.C with a East/west defect that i noticed only at 3 months. His father is an italian top dog , winner in 2006 in Finland and the 2006 most requested stud dog , shire of many top dogs. Now my questions to the experts are: how is this defect possible in my dog and also i would like to know if i must avoid breeding him in case the defect in the offspring occurs if it may EVER occur at all!! Thankyou.

First, I wouldn't call being eastie/westie a "defect" in a Pembroke. It is a fault, and as there are NO perfect specimens of any breed, all dogs have faults. The sire of your boy sounds like he might fall into what is called "popular sire syndrome." Big winners are often sought after for stud services; the more they win and their offspring win, the more they are sought after for use. Sometimes they aren't the best of the best as far as breed specimens go, just that they win. I don't know the dog/stud in question and am not saying that this might be the case with this particular dog - just that it happens. Another thing that happens is that a spectacular dog might not reproduce as good as itself. The record holder for most Best In Shows, as well as numerous specialty wins, Westminister wins, is one such dog. He was a super nice dog, but his offspring never did reach his quality. His sire however, was a wonderful producer. It is also helpful to know about his littermates, his sire and dam, and their littermates and so on back in the pedigree.

Now this brings me to my next point. While it very easy to blame Mr. Super Stud for all the faults; one can't or shouldn't forget that half of those genes in your boy came from his dam. So what are her faults? What are her littermates, sire and dam and their littermates like and so on back into the pedigree.

A correct front is a hard trait to get in a either breed of corgi - correct shoulder layback, good length of upper arm - well, in critiques given often all that is said - "fronts, enough said;" they always need work. Fronts are polygenetic in nature, which is another element that makes getting correct ones so difficult.

In breeding one is hoping to produce better than the specimen they are breeding. The ultimate brass ring is to breed a "perfect" example of the breed. As all dogs have faults, that isn't going to happen, but we keep trying. IF you decide to breed your boy, there is a chance he will pass his front on to his puppies. What you would want to look for in a b*tch to breed him to is the best possible front you can find and a strong pedigree for good fronts.

Hope this helps.

Debbie

[bec]

how old is he now? It may be a nutrition issue.
i have read some great threads on another forum about correcting east west feet with diet.

read this thread, there are some interesting opinions:
Puppys Front Feet - Dogz Online and EDBA Forums

[kalima62]

No, I don't think it's a nutrition issue, but i was asking myself if any experienced breeder could please highlight me, of this defect is first shown up in a puppy. Is it a matter of weeks, or does it take 3 months to appear. When i got Rommel, he was 3 months old. I didn't notice it at first, but as time passed, I noticed this funny thing and thought that it was a funny feature of all corgis. This is my first corgi and I had little or no experience in the corgi standard. The thing is, that the breeder didn't even mention the defect to me, and later on, when I started to notice his feet, I called him and told him about it. He said he didn't notice them at all!!! Is that possible at 3 months!!!!????

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by kalima62

No, I don't think it's a nutrition issue, but i was asking myself if any experienced breeder could please highlight me, of this defect is first shown up in a puppy. Is it a matter of weeks, or does it take 3 months to appear. When i got Rommel, he was 3 months old. I didn't notice it at first, but as time passed, I noticed this funny thing and thought that it was a funny feature of all corgis. This is my first corgi and I had little or no experience in the corgi standard. The thing is, that the breeder didn't even mention the defect to me, and later on, when I started to notice his feet, I called him and told him about it. He said he didn't notice them at all!!! Is that possible at 3 months!!!!????

Marisa,

As Debbie said, it's a fault not a defect. And yes, it does happen and faults can show up at any time in puppies. Which is why technically a puppy destined for the show ring should be called a "show prospect" not "show quality".

It's quite possible that it was not obvious when you got the puppy and hasn't developed until recently. It may or may not correct itself has he ages. Probably not but just might.

Peggy

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by kalima62

No, I don't think it's a nutrition issue, but i was asking myself if any experienced breeder could please highlight me, of this defect is first shown up in a puppy. Is it a matter of weeks, or does it take 3 months to appear.

Again, this is a FAULT, not a defect and yes it can take months for them to show up.

When i got Rommel, he was 3 months old. I didn't notice it at first, but as time passed, I noticed this funny thing and thought that it was a funny feature of all corgis. This is my first corgi and I had little or no experience in the corgi standard. The thing is, that the breeder didn't even mention the defect to me, and later on, when I started to notice his feet, I called him and told him about it. He said he didn't notice them at all!!! Is that possible at 3 months!!!!????

Yes, very possible it wasn't showing up at 3 months and in that case the breeder wouldn't have noticed it. I'm puppysitting two almost 4 month old puppies this weekend that are not the same puppies I was raising 3 months ago. Still cute and sweet as can be, but from a conformation eye, they're falling apart at the moment. As Peggy said, that's why puppies should be considered show "potential or prospect" because there is no guarantee they'll actually be show quality, too much can go off at this age. Puppies can also tend to grow "pieces" at a time - hocks can start growing causing a puppy to be high in the rear until the rest of the body grows into them as one example. Bites can go off, testicles get sucked back up ... a long list breeders hold their breath and cross their fingers about. He might grow out of it as Peggy also mentioned, but depending on the degree of turn out (could you get a front shot of him stacked so we could take a look?), and if his other virtues out weigh this one fault, then he could still have a very successful show career. You will need to be careful about the bitches he's bred to, if you breed him, as far as the strength of their fronts.

Debbie

[kalima62]

I'm finding it difficult in this forum to get some shots in this reply for you to see, I'll put them in the "New photos" on the front page... That's easiest for me... I'm sorry for keeping on saying that my dog has a defect, i simply translate my italian which is Difetto", now i know that it's a fault.

[kalima62]

The pics are in pembroke welsh corgis.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by kalima62

I'm finding it difficult in this forum to get some shots in this reply for you to see, I'll put them in the "New photos" on the front page... That's easiest for me... I'm sorry for keeping on saying that my dog has a defect, i simply translate my italian which is Difetto", now i know that it's a fault.

Your English is so good I didn't realize you were in Italy!

Peggy