Symptoms of heart pain in a dog

[Chip's Mom]

First of all I do know that coughing is a sign of heart trouble but I would like to know if a symptom of scrunching up for a very short period of time could be a sign of heart pain or congestive heart failure in a dog. I will add that you don't know why I am asking so please spare the take the dog to the vet and all of that. I apologize if that sounds rude as I don't mean it too.

[glencorgi]

Bonnie,

Do you mean scrunching up as in roaching up in the back?

Here are some links and quotes from them:
Heart Failure In Dogs - Congestive Cardiomyopathy
"Signs of Heart Failure:
Dogs in the later stages of congestive heart failure become much less active and tire easily. Their appetite usually falls of and they show signs of difficult respiration, panting and coughing while at rest. Their tummy enlarges and takes on a pear-shape as fluid accumulates in the liver and abdomen. Electrocardiograms taken of these dogs are always abnormal. When I examine these dogs, the color of the membranes of the mouth are grayish rather than healthy pink and blood vessels on the surface are abnormally congested with blood. These dogs often have a condition called a jugular pulse in which the beating of the heart can be seen in the large jugular veins of the neck. The sounds of heartbeat that I hear through my stethoscope are always abnormal to some degree."

Congestive Heart Failure in Dogs - Mitral Valve
"Symptoms of Heart Failure:
At this late stage of the disease all forms of heart failure have the same signs. Dogs in the later stages of congestive heart failure become much less active and tire easily. Their appetite usually falls of and they show signs of difficult respiration, panting and coughing while at rest. Electrocardiograms taken of these dogs are always abnormal. When I examine these dogs, the color of the membranes of the mouth are grayish rather than healthy pink and vessels on the surface are abnormally congested with blood. These dogs often have a condition called a jugular pulse in which the beating of the heart can be seen in the large jugular veins of the neck. The sounds of heartbeat that I hear through my stethoscope are always abnormal to some degree.

Congestive heart failure develops over many months and years. Its effects on blood flow also develops slowly. As heart function declines, the body is able to compensate for several weeks or months. However, at some point, the body's ability to compensate is no longer effective. At this point, dogs can go into severe heart failure in what appears to be a matter of hours. Rapid, heavy breathing, blue tongue (cyanosis), excessive drooling, or collapse may be the first signs that anything is wrong.

By the time dogs develop ascites cyanosis and pulmonary edema they rarely live beyond a year or two. Many die sooner despite the use of many medications. The disease is known to run in families so dogs with this problem should not be bred."

And a few more:
Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy and Heart Failure ~ Pawprints and Purrs, Inc.
Canine Congestive Heart Failure - LoveToKnow Dogs
Congestive Heart Failure in Dog

Maybe the answer will be in these.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

Debbie - It is Lady who has renal failure and has had that for over a year and she is about 15. A couple times in the past week she has walked in a very scrunched up position. Her head is tucked down onto her chest so you can't see her neck at all and her back end is tucked forward some. She looks pathetic but it only lasts for seconds to maybe a minute or two and goes away and she seems fine or tired. She still goes outside, eats well most days and argues with the boys some. She has on occasion lost her water a few times but that goes with age and her kidney problem. She has vomited bile a couple times again lately. The second time she did it, I thought I was going to have to take her to the vet but then she got over it quickly and I don't want to take her to the vet unless I absolutely have to such as pain or sickness or if her quality of life is drastically reduced. She is at a healthy weight. She does rattle some when she breathes at night periodically and I suspect that is fluid retention but then alot of the time, she breathes fine. She drinks alot of water which is good for her condition. Anyway, my sister told me tonight her dog did that and died of a heart attack. I focus so much on her kidney problem that it never occurred to me that it could be her heart so I just wondered what the symptoms would be other then coughing and Lady doesn't cough. I know some people will think that I am awful because I don't rush her to the vet but I don't want her poked and prodded and given IV fluids at her age and she isn't to the point where she needs to be euthanized.

[Corgis4me]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

By the time dogs develop ascites cyanosis and pulmonary edema they rarely live beyond a year or two. Many die sooner despite the use of many medications.

My cat had congestive heart failure and with the use of medication, he lived 10 more months from the time of diagnosis. They thought he would be lucky to live 3 months. The problem that can happen with medications though is that while helpful for the heart they can sometimes affect other organs as was the case with him and the medication put extra strain on his kidneys which didn't help him in the end.

[glencorgi]

Oh Bonnie, I'm so sorry and I really can empathize with how you are feeling. I had a senior foster come in years back that was in kidney failure when he arrived. He had a great quality of life until the last couple of weeks. At the first of the year one of my former rescues literally dropped dead from a heart attack at five years of age. She'd just come in for her breakfast after enjoying a romp in the fresh fallen snow, fell over seized, began heavy panting and she was gone. Less than five minutes time.

I can't say that her symptoms and the scrunching is or isn't related to her heart - I just don't know. The possibility of small strokes comes to mind. There were some renal failure and CHF mentions together.

We'll be thinking of her and you.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

Thanks Debbie, Lady is a tough dog as the Vet tells me whenever we talk so it could be muscle spasms, a little kidney pain or a number of things. I will just continue to keep a close eye on her. My sister in law had a rottie that did the same thing as your rescue and he was 5 years old also. She was devastated too.

[Michael Romanos]

Serrious heart problems can be treated and stabilised to quite a comfortable degree. I wrote a story aboit Princess - a Pem Corgi-cross who lived til 23.5 years and at 17 had heart failure. The monthly drugs (tablets) she was on kept her going really strong and she had exceptional life quality until she died last year.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

First of all I do know that coughing is a sign of heart trouble but I would like to know if a symptom of scrunching up for a very short period of time could be a sign of heart pain or congestive heart failure in a dog. I will add that you don't know why I am asking so please spare the take the dog to the vet and all of that. I apologize if that sounds rude as I don't mean it too.

I had a dog die or cardiomyopathy and she didn't do the scrunching. She did have the cough.

The scrunching or roaching usually means some sort of pain in the back area. A disk, kidney pain. Sometimes they will do that if they have stomach or intestinal pain too.

Peggy

[Chip's Mom]

Peggy - that is what I am thinking it must be is kidney pain. She hasn't done it since so we will watch her