Skin issues in odie

[blpipers]

I bought my corgi Odie, about 8 months ago.....when I bought him, he was fine. After having him a month, he started scratching, chewing and losing hair. I took him to vet. Vet said it was flea allergies(however I use frontline plus on all my dogs)....he still did not get better. I took him to another vet. Vet said he had demodmex mange and that I should not use him as a stud dog. He had the treatments....still not better. I have tried almost everything! He also has whats called " reverse sneezing" is this common in the breed? i don't know if I should breed him or not. My other corgis are fine and all 3 have run of the house and yard.
If anyone has any idea on what's going on or something else that I can try....please let me know.
Thanks

[Michael Romanos]

The first vet you sent him would have been incorrect -unfortunately - and the second vet would know what he/she is talking about.
Demodex (demodectic mange) is a ticks-related disease that affects puppies and has a strong element of hereditary. In a lot of cases the problem disappears when the affected dog reaches into adulthood. Breeding from dogs with this hereditary problem is not recommended.
Usual treatments include lotions, dips and special shampoos. Rotenone ointment (goodwinol) or benzoyl peroxide gel and/or shampoo. High quality food diet recommmended ( AAFCO-approved super premium food) and to include multivitamins and fatty acids.


I can find out for you how good vets in New Zealand would treat demodex if you like.
As for reverse sneezing - I think that this problem goes away given time. At least it did to my Taylor - suddenly he developed it and a couple of weeks later it just disappeared and has never returned up to this point of time.

[Louwants]

Could he have allergies to something in your house, food, the grass or such? Have you changed food or using something different in cleaning around the house? Could be the problem.

[fogebotom]

DM--this coming from my collie side and knowing that this breed is very prone to it. More and more research is showing that it is an underlying symptom of immume disorders. Granted collie people(and I hope I don't offend anyone) are also a very different set of people-will continue to breed even a dog that showed a mild case. Also note that the collie has issues with eyes(one breeder comments as long as they can see to go around the ring, who cares what else they can't see) or bloat(another breeder is know to go in and staple her dogs stomach so that they won't bloat) or seizures, etc.

Personally-no I would not consider that dog a viable breeding dog based on the fact that he has severe allergies(to what you don't know yet) and more then likely it's due to something comprimising his immune system. In other words, no knowing what is really wrong, would you feel comfortable passing on something bad to a puppy buyer and having them have to go through all the issues you are now?

[blpipers]

Thanks everyone for the information....I was afraid that I would not be able to use him as a breeder.....I paid $400.00 for him, so that I could use him with my female. I am really upset with the person that sold him to me, cause I feel like they knew something was wrong and just didn't tell me. I promise that When I have another litter of pups, I will quantee them so that they don't end up with the same problems I have. I really feel sorry for my poor baby as well.....he looks so miserable!

[MyPemCharlie]

You shouldn't need to quarantine healthy puppies, but breeding Odie is not a good idea. Demodectic mange appears in dogs with a poor immune system and the compromised immune system can be inherited. All dogs carry demodex mites, but the immune system of healthy dogs keeps the mite population small so the dog doesn't "break out". When a dog's immune system can't fight off the mites they reproduce like crazy resulting in the mange.

You might ask your vet, or find a holistic veterinarian who can talk to you about ways to boost Odie's immune system with diet and nutritional supplements. Or consider going back to your breeder. Did they give you any type of health warranty? With a compromised immune system, Odie is unfortunately likely to have quite a few future health issues.

Edit: I just noticed you wrote that you would "quantee" future puppies. Did you mean quarantine, or guarantee?

[fogebotom]

I might step on a toe or two here, and I apologize first and foremost if I do. What where your reasons for purchasing Odie to breed to your girl-structure, pedigree, etc.? And the $400 you paid for Odie would have gotten you a nice stud fee from another dog too.

Immune disorders for the most part, are not something you can predict in breeding a dog say via a genetic test. But if you know that you have it in a line, you can pretty much say that it's a ticking time bomb. What you need to do is go back and ask the breeder you got him from, if any of his litters mates have come up with anything. Previous litters, parents, grandparents or siblings of parents, etc. If she can't give you clear answers concerning the generational health of those dogs, then I would walk, no run, the other direction and find a breeder who has a long term commitment with lots of data to offer on the health of her dogs.

Also like Chris said, it's not about quarantining puppies, it's about their long term health. Will you have the resources if a puppy buyer comes back to you with a sick puppy, to pay the medical bills, offer to replace the puppy or refund their money. Will you do it for the life of the dog?

Dogs with compromised immune systems not only have higher reactions to mites, fleas but also other allergins, and this can also contribute to other more significant health issues-joints, blood diseases, internal organs.

Again, my opinion only having seen a beautiful collie have to be PTS at just under a year of age due to immune system problems, it's not something to mess with and not something I personally would want to be responsible for spreading throughout a gene pool.

[glencorgi]

Reverse sneezing is fairly common in the breed - can say it is a "corgi thing". Some do, some don't, some outgrow it, others don't.

As others have said demodectic mange is an autoimmune problem and occurs quite frequently in some breeds. Cindy covered collies, pugs are another breed that come to mind. Not unusual to pop up at adolescence, which would fit with your boy's age. It has nothing to do with ticks. I concur with others, including your vet, who have stated they wouldn't use him in a breeding program.

Finding a holistic vet is a good suggestion, see what you can do to help his immune system internally. Another option is to talk with your vet about using ivermectin perhaps. I had a senior foster come in years back at 12 years of age that had had almost life long bouts of demodectic mange. He was also in the last stages of kidney failure, but had such an incredible zest for life I just couldn't put him down. We put him in K/D for the kidneys and treated his mange with ivermectin orally. This is an off-label use for ivermectin and your vet can set up a prescription dosage for him. In three months we had his mange cleared and he enjoyed barking at cows and chasing his purple ball for another year with me when his kidneys finally gave out on him completely.

Debbie

[blpipers]

I'm sorry I meant to say guarantee the puppies. I have not bred Odie and will not use him as a stud now. I have talked with my vet again and we are trying to decide the best route to take with him. I love this little guy and hate seeing him so unhappy. I have tried to speak with the breeder on several occasions and have been told there was nothing wrong with the dogs they owned. I however don't believe this. I used an outside stud for the first litter of pups I had and hubby decided we needed to get our own male....thought I found a good one. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

Thanks

[MyPemCharlie]

Well, I'm sorry to hear about Odie. I would think that your breeder would offer you at least a one-year health guarantee on his problems, even if they claim no problems with their other dogs. Hopefully you and your vet can find something to help him soon. I've also read that oral Ivermectin can help, like Debbie suggested, though some herding breeds are sensitive to it. Maybe an herbal product like Neem Oil, in addition to vet products, might bring him some relief? Anyway do keep us posted on his progress.

So are you planning to go back to the stud route, or look for another dog dog of your own? There are some very good, experienced breeders here on GoCorgi who can help.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by blpipers

I bought my corgi Odie, about 8 months ago.....when I bought him, he was fine. After having him a month, he started scratching, chewing and losing hair. I took him to vet. Vet said it was flea allergies(however I use frontline plus on all my dogs)....he still did not get better. I took him to another vet. Vet said he had demodmex mange and that I should not use him as a stud dog. He had the treatments....still not better. I have tried almost everything!

Dogs can be allergic to fleas. And many flea "preventatives" only work after the dog is bitten. Meaning the flea gets killed but has to bite the dog first. And in this case the dog would still react to the fleas.

As for the mange, Debbie can advise you on that better. I think she's delt with it with some of her fosters.

He also has whats called " reverse sneezing" is this common in the breed?

Yes, it's pretty common in corgis. And in dogs in general. It is not anything to worry about. Dogs do it for various reasons and sometimes allergies can trigger it. I've not seen any outgrow it, but sometimes it's more frequent than other times.

i don't know if I should breed him or not.

I would not. Even with severe allergies, well they can be heridatery and you wouldn't want to pass that on.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by blpipers

Thanks everyone for the information....I was afraid that I would not be able to use him as a breeder.....I paid $400.00 for him, so that I could use him with my female.

I feel I should let you know that $400 is a very low price for a corgi. Even for a dog bought from a reputable breeder who health tests their dogs. Also, a dog with a price this low would be considered a "pet quality" and a reputable breeder requries spay/neuter with that designation.

I am really upset with the person that sold him to me, cause I feel like they knew something was wrong and just didn't tell me.

They might not have known about the allergies or even the mange.

I promise that When I have another litter of pups, I will quantee them so that they don't end up with the same problems I have. I really feel sorry for my poor baby as well.....he looks so miserable!

How can you guarantee for something you have no control over? The way to produce quality puppies is to buy quality stock to begin with and to do the health tes