Vaccine Schedule

[darci]

Ok Guys I would like everyone's input on vaccinations.

I am concerned about the lepto vaccine, any opinnions ? I am thinking of asking my vet to do the single vaccine with lepto instead of the combo, I've heard there are less complications this way.

Has anyone's vets went to the every 3 yr vaccine schedule ?

Darci's annual shots are coming up, I am hearing a lot of info on owners getting titers done prior to vaccines to check the immunity levels to see which vaccines are really needed. Anyone of our members doing this ?

I am not an advocate of not vaccinating and always get our annual shots, we've never had a reaction thank God, but I know serious reactions and even death can occur with vaccines, As well as serious illness and death without the vaccines.

[corgimom]

Darci,

I am seeing my vet on Friday for Cody's Lyme disease vaccination, I will
ask him about the 3 year. Cody did get his Lepto and had no complications,
but I have heard they can have side effects from it. I will let you know.

You are asking about the 3 year for Lepto - right?

linda

[darci]

2-3 yr schedule for all vaccinations. I have read a few articles regarding this, but my vet recomends rabies at 16 weeks then at 1 yr and then every 3 yrs, and annual on all other vaccines.

Of course she would do whatever I chose to do, but those are her protocols.

I have been reading on another dog board , many of their vets are going to either a 2 or 3 yr protocol, just curious as to vet protocols of our members on this board.

[corgimom]

My vet recommends the same as yours, but I will ask him on Friday.

linda

[glencorgi]

I use the 3 year protocols and add a verbal disclaimer to our adoption contract (which does stipulate annual vaccinations) to follow a schedule worked out with their vet. The other night I was watching Barkitecture on the DIY channel. One of the hosts is a veterinarian and she mentioned the 2 to 3 year protocols. I see a growing trend towards the 3 year protocols, but there are many vets who still stand by the annual vaccinations. It is worth discussing with your veterinarian though and titers are also an option.

Rabies however, is a different matter. Rabies is a public health issue and those vaccinations come under legal parameters. The 16 week, boostered at a year and then every three years is standard. Some states or localities require annual vaccinations for rabies by law. That is one it is difficult to "opt out of" even with titers, unless there are extreme mitigating health issues for the animal.

Debbie

[Jane Austen]

What is "titers"? It is a new term to me.

[corgimom]

I will be seeing my vet tomorrow for Lyme Vaccination instead of Friday so I will ask him about the Lepto.

They just built a new office and my vet called me today and wants Cody and myself to be part of a video they are making tomorrow for their web site -yikes! I did agree, but did not promise perfect behavior from Cody. He is also going to have a German Shepherd there and some Boxer Pups - I am already thinking "is Cody going to start Herding this German Shepherd?? He thought Cody would be a good "star" for the video because he is cute and just wants everyone to act natural - I have a feeling I will be hearing lots of barking towards the other dogs - I am a bit worried.

Should be interesting.

linda

[Michael Romanos]

Here is the vaccination system in NZ.

A puppy is vaccinated (four in one) for parvo, distemper, hepatitis and kennel cough at six weeks of age, again at 9 weeks and again at 12 weeks and from then on annually (12 monthly). This is the recommended inocculation programme, but I'm sure a lot of breeders/owners forgo the nine weeks of age vaccination.

Optional, if a dog is going to be travelling distances in excess of 250 miles one way, is an annual vaccination for leptospirosis ( which is caused through the infection of rat's urine and faeces).

With regard to the four in one vaccination, it is one of the reason's to let go puppies to other owners when they are eight weeks or under three months - because it will save the breeder one to two visits to the vet.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Jane Austen

What is "titers"? It is a new term to me.

A titer measures the immunity levels a dog has via testing a blood sample for antibodies. If antibodies are sufficiently high for a specific disease, then one wouldn't need to vaccinate for it.

Debbie

[corgimom]

I did talk to my vet today about vaccinations and Cody will get his rabies
at 1 year along with his distemper. The rabies will then be given every
3 years and distemper every 2 years. Lepto every year and Bordatella every
year also.

He did bring up the "titer" issue with me but it would only be in regards to
distemper and said they are thinking of testing for that and maybe a dog
would not need it as often. He also mentioned the "titer "in regards to Rabies
and said something about Cornell university testing for that, but than he said
there are other issues involved such as municipality laws and what they
require for rabies vaccinations and that is a whole other issue.

Linda

[corgimom]

I was reading an article in an animal magazine today regarding the Lepto
vaccination. It goes on to say..

Never vaccinate a small dog or young pup with Lepto. The vaccine is not needed and can cause harsh and sometimes fatal reactions. House dogs do not need to be vaccinated for Lepto - adult outside dogs need to be vaccinated for Lepto only if there is a possibility of traveling in the same area as feral animals.

Would anyone care to comment on this? So does an in house dog who is only
walked (on leash) outdoors need Lepto? - now what if racoons and possums
wonder into the yard at night - would that make a difference as to whether
a dogs needs this.

linda

[glencorgi]

Lepto is one of those "iffy" vaccines. There are a lot of strains and the vaccination doesn't cover them all. I think someone asked how there corgi could return from being boarded with kennel cough when they had been vaccinated for it before they went in. Bordatella only covers a few of the strains of "kennel cough" and if the one your dog might be exposed to isn't covered in it; then it can catch it. Kind of like flu shots only good for a specific strain.

If Lepto is endemic in your area, then it might be wise to vaccinate for it. For many breeds though the risk of reactions to the vaccine is not a risk many are willing to take.

I'm copying one corgi owner's experience with lepto. She gave permission to cross post.

Debbie
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I don?t know how many of you have had experience with a leptospirosis bacterial infection in a dog. We now have first hand experience since we almost lost our Pembroke Welsh Corgi Penny to this awful disease, and I would like to share our experiences with you in case it may help someone save a dog. Please note that these are my notes, not our veterinarian?s, and I may have something slightly incorrect. Nevertheless, my main goal is to give you a look at our experience with this deadly bacterial disease.
On Friday, May 20, 7-year-old Penny vomited after eating breakfast. She vomited once again later in the day. I cancelled plans to go to an agility trial with her the next day. I didn?t feed her again until Saturday morning. She ate normally with her usual Corgi appetite and was bright and bouncy all day. I thought she was over whatever had been the problem and planned to go to the next day?s agility trial. We got up early on Sunday morning and I fed her a normal meal, which she immediately vomited back up. I cancelled plans to attend the trial.
Throughout the day on Sunday, Penny alternated between being her normal cheerful self and being somewhat lethargic. My husband, Donald, and I debated taking her to an emergency vet, but she just didn?t seem to be so sick that the stress on her would be worth it. We decided to watch her during the night and take her to our own vet on Monday morning. All day Sunday and throughout the night, we checked Penny?s color regularly. Her gums became a little pale during the night and we last checked them at 5:30 a.m. on Monday morning.
We went to our vet at 8 a.m. on Monday, May 23. As our vet began his exam, he looked at Penny?s gums and they were a sick yellow ? an awful sight (remember at 5:30 they had been only pale). The whites of her eyes were also getting yellow at this point. He ran blood work and she was already in both liver and kidney failure. Her red blood cells were being destroyed and her white count was elevated. She was also running two degrees of temperature. He suspected the tick borne disease ehrlichea or the bacterial disease leptospirosis. More blood work was done, including a request for lepto titer that went to Cornell University via a lab New York City. He began aggressive treatment of Penny?s symptoms and she was put on an IV drip with penicillin teamed with Baytril to work on what was causing the temp and the climbing white cell count. He added steroids to the mix in case we were looking at an autoimmune problem. More blood work would come back on Tuesday and would hopefully tell us more. Meanwhile Penny, who is tiny to begin with, had lost 1.5 lbs. and only weighed 15 lbs.; she had lost nearly 10 percent of her bodyweight.
Donald and I decided that we could not leave her alone all night at the vet (they are not a 24 hour treatment facility), so they reluctantly let us take her home on the IV until the next morning. We monitored her carefully all night, taking turns at getting sleep. Each day too, the vet?s office made copies of the vet?s notes and any test results that had come in case we had a crisis in the night and had to go to an emergency vet clinic. In my view, it turned out to be CRITICAL to have her home at night as she frequently would shut off the IV by lying on it or by moving just right. It required constant vigilance to keep the drip going. Also, we kept a log of all her activity to share with our vet when we took her back to the clinic each morning.
On Tuesday, May 24, more test results ruled out autoimmune problems as well as any of the known tick borne diseases. Meanwhile, her liver and kidneys were slowly resuming some of their function although the continued destruction of the red blood cells was problematic, as were the protein levels in her blood. No lepto results in yet. It seems the blood samples that go to NYC are batched, so we were looking at 7-10 DAYS for the lepto titer results to come back.
Wednesday through Saturday noon (May 26-28) we followed the above course with only small changes. Penny still vomited occasionally and she developed a head wobble due to potassium shortage and the vet altered the IV fluid to account for electrolyte loss. The wobble, however, continued off and on through Sunday. Meanwhile, at midday Saturday the vet office closed for the Memorial Day holiday. They gave Penny her antibiotics through Sunday and gave us three IV bags with her fluids for the balance of the holiday weekend. They also gave us her antibiotic injection for Monday, which fellow PWCCP member Jane Burrows? husband David (a retired vet) gave her. My husband, Don, had meanwhile become quite adept at flushing Penny?s line and setting her up with a new bag of fluids when she needed it.
As the weekend progressed, Penny became brighter and more responsive to her surroundings and to us. Instead of urinating in her expen, she waited for us to take her outside (we walked her in an area not reachable by our other dogs). By Memorial Day Monday, May 30, she was walking on and off the porch by herself, and on Tuesday even jumped into the car by herself when I took her back to the vet.
Penny remained on IV fluids until the following Friday, June 3. Midweek we began her on some solid food (Hills Prescription ID) just a spoonful at a time and she devoured it hungrily. She also took in chipped ice. When we brought her home that Friday afternoon she was off the IV for the first time. She was also switched to oral doses of doxycycline for two weeks. She was eating a full can of the prescription food each day at this point.
The following Monday, June 6, we took Penny to the vet for more blood work and learned that the lepto titer had come back and was negative. Our vet decided to run another one the following week and we fully expected it to come back positive, although with antibody levels indicating recovery. As the days passed, Penny continued to improve. She ate voraciously and was soon gained back her weight with a half pound extra. We visited the vet for a quick checkup and blood work every couple of days.
The second sample for the lepto titer was taken on Monday, June 13, and the results were back and negative the following Monday, June 20. On that date, Our vet told us he was very worried that Penny?s hemolytic anemia as well as her other symptoms were a result of a possible autoimmune disorder, even though all test results in that area were negative too. Even though her weight had rebounded to 17 lbs., he was worried about the amount of red cell detritus still in her blood stream and had begun to fear she might throw a clot. He started her on low dose aspirin immediately as well as put her back on steroids. Our vet agreed with us that it was time to consult an internist.
On Friday, June 24 my friend Jane and I set out for northern Virginia to consult with an internist. We had a copy of all my vet?s notes, all test results, as well as a summary and referral from my vet. The internist studied the notes in her own office while we waited. Following that she did a hands on examination of Penny. Her conclusion is that Penny HAD been infected with leptospirosis. It seems that there is a large number of lepto serovars for which there is no test process, so results are frequently negative since the correct lepto serovar was not tested for. (My note: One wonders sometimes why we pay so much for titers that are more often than not incorrect. I?ve experienced this with Lyme?s disease in two different dogs in addition to this experience with two false negative titers with Penny. Still, when we?re trying to save our dying pet, we will do anything and pay anything for whatever tests seem indicated.) The internist also told us that Penny is recovering even more rapidly than most dogs do ? Penny was in excellent weight and condition at the start of the disease due to her work in agility. The internist has prescribed two more weeks of doxycycline and a month of very low dose aspirin as well as two cycles of blood counts and chemistries over the next four weeks. During that time, Penny?s activity level can gradually increase to normal levels.
As a final note, I remind you that these are my recollections from my own notes of this experience and I share them here with you in case this happens to you as well. There ARE vaccinations for the seven known serovars of leptospirosis and whether you believe they are indicated for your dog(s) is best decided with the advice of your own veterinarian.
Cynthia Courtney
PWCCP Member
St. Thomas, PA
PERMISSION TO CROSS POST

[Chip's Mom]

In New York, they give the 3 year rabies and hold many free clinics. In TN they only give the one year. I really liked the 3 year program. Chip has already had his rabies shot. He got it in May. There has been some reports of rabies here recently.

[corgimom]

Thank you for that Deb,

I can't imagine going through all that with Cody.

I was the one who brought up the Bordatella with the dog coming down with kennel cough. He had been at a doggy daycare place for the weekend and 4 days later showed signs. The owner said this could not be because it takes at least 1 week(from exposure time) for signs of kennel cough to show up and that he must have been exposed before. However, my friend said that he had not been around any other dogs before that.

What is your take on this?

Linda

[corgimom]

I decided to bring this thread up again since I was just discussing vaccinations with my vet and because of Cindy's original question back in May.

Cody is due for his vaccinations in March and I have discussed this with his vet and we are going to be giving the Rabies, Lepto and Distemper all seperately and 2 weeks apart from each other(which will help to see which ones he may react to. He said they usually give the Lepto/Distemper together, but can do them seperately(as Cindy was asking about her in the beginning)

Then, after that, they will do the "titer" testing if their clients request it through Cornell , but said obviously the Rabies vaccination requirement is not something they can change and that titer testing for Lepto was not yet available, but if that changes, they would do that. For everything else, they can test for Titers and then we can make a decision about vaccinating based on the results. He also told me that when they do the heartworm test in the spring that they automatically test for Lyme disease(which I was not aware of)