Jumping - over protective or being sensible?

[glencorgi]

I'm moving this exchange over to the Health Issues Forum, because that is really what is the concern - a health issue.

Linda/corgimom wrote:

Cody jumps up on the sofa also and can also jump up on the beds, I don't like the bed thing - I just think it is too high and I always help him down. maybe I am just worrying, but I don't know if that could hurt his back.

To which Michael replied with this comment:

Linda - you are over anxious. and over-protective. Corgis are tough cookeis - they are not delicate toy dogs. Treat them with kids gloves and they won't develop to their full potential.

I will agree with Michael that corgis are tough cookies. What one has is (originally at least) is an approximately 25 pound dog that was bred to move cattle and the corgi won. Sums up a lot about the breed and I do get alarmed when I get inquiries caught up in the cute factor, fall into a toy breed mindset (toys were bred to be companions primarily, but some of them can be pretty tough themselves) and don't realize the attitude and presence of a working breed - which corgis are.

Here is where I part company with Michael. Some Welsh farmsteads would be rugged terrain and puppies probably played over a lot of it. But playing king of the rock or scrambling over a fallen tree limb is not the same shock impact as jumping off a high bed. The back is not my primary concern with a puppy jumping - it is the growth plates in the legs. Growth plates do not fully close until a year to eighteen months of age and there is some research looking at perhaps two years of age. Repetitive jumping down can break down a front - it happened to the first CWC puppy used on the tv show Dharma and Greg. On set trainers kept having him jump off the chair, against breeder's instructions and conditions of sale. There can also be injuries sustained with the repetitive jumping down. Look at your corgi's shape - it is egg shaped with the bulk of the weight in the front. The weight and the impact of going down repetively can cause damage in youngsters.

I'll admit to being a bit alarmed at some of the trainers in the obedience classes bringing out agility equipment, including jumps for your puppies. A recent thread on the Performance Corgis list was about what obstacles one began puppies on - the overwhelming consent was the low impact ones - tunnels, A-frames - at LOWEST height, teeters - set low, tables - jumping did not begin until at least a year of age because of both structural health and mental maturity. To paraphrase one experienced agility exhibitor - just because AKC says they can compete at a year of age, doesn't mean they should be competing.

So was this an over protective, over anxious reaction? In my opinion - no. It is founded in wanting to protect the health of one's dog. And lets face it, most of us do have our "paranoid panic buttons" when it comes to our corgis. I certainly have mine. Once one goes through something with their dog, then they tend to be a little more cautious about that certain thing in the future. Just part of being a responsible owner, <imho>.

Debbie

[Corgis'R4me]

*~* I will lift Midnight & Sunshine onto my bed. Midnight WAITS for me to get her off...everytime ! Sunshine does jump off from time to time. If I am there on the bed with them.....then, Sunshine will wait for me to get her off. But, If I leave the room and forget about my girls (how dare I !!) then, I see Sunshine running down the hall after me. Of course, she jumped off the bed.
Midnight will be standing on the edge waiting for me.
So patients she is...!!! So obedient !!

I will correct Sushine...and put her back on the bed and say, "WAIT". They know that when I say, "wait"...that I will come back for them. They BOTH know. I know...that they KNOW ! They BOTH have shown me that they know by staying put until I return ! YEP.....I know that they KNOW !!

ANYHOO...I, too worry about their backs & hips. I try...TRY...not to let them jump off of anything !

Sunshine is the one who I have to watch.

*~* Nikki

[Michael Romanos]

How high is a bed off the floor? How high s too high for the average fit and physical Corgi?

[Chip's Mom]

Debbie:

I am at the top of the list for worrisome, overprotective, eccentric owned by a corgi pup person - now what do I do about Chip's yoyo behavior? As I said before, when we come home, Maybelle is looking out the window in the doorway, front feet planted firmly on the door. Beside her is my pawsitively perfect Chip's face appearing and disappearing in the window where he is jumping up and down like a yoyo because he wants to see too. Should I buy stairs for him so he can see out and stop that jumping? Will it hurt his back legs and/or back. It really is funny to see him but I don't want him to get hurt.

[tandemgal]

I have a jumping problem with Chloe too...

I agree with Michael that corgi are sturdy strong tough little dogs and goodness knows Chloe is my tomboy - she is pretty ruff and tumble. She and Leah play and run just as any normal child and dog play - I am not worried about that - in fact I encourage both of them to go run off that energy...I really think Chloe has the kind of energy and natural jumping ability that she could be an agility dog. I don't but she does LOL

Mu problem is Chloe is a jumper - jumps onto everything - sofa, chairs, beds. And she doesnt wait for us to get her down. Not worried too much about sofa and chairs they are normal size but my bed sits high. So I am worried about long term problems with her growth plates not being mature yet.

How do I keep her from jumping down from the bed when I dont know she is going to do it until she is in mid air? Even at 4/5 months Emma was never a jumper and always waits for me to help her up and down.

Am dealing with one health crisis - dont need another a few years down the road...

[glencorgi]

Our new bed is at least 30" high and the angle the corgis have to take it at in order to jump on the bed is too sharp for them to always be successful. That's also a fairly long way down with a hard landing. We have an ottoman at the end of the bed which breaks up the jump going up and going down. The corgis love it as it as a new element like a game to them.

Chip's yo-yoing, if it is what I'm picturing - that should be mostly his rear assembly at work and could even help strengthen that area. However I do feel you are being totally slack Bonnie by not providing him with his own window seat (or throne <g>) so he can sprawl out and leisurely watch the world outside and keep an eye out for/on you. - How dare you! <LOL>

As for Miss Chloe and others like her - they're tougher to figure out preventive type measures because they're so in a blink of an eye quick. Jumping up isn't so bad, especially if she can easily make it. Once she's up, then do something to get her attention and have her focus on you. You could teach her to leap into your arms perhaps and set her down that way. Or have her do a nice sit and wait and then you set her down. Or set up a stool, ottoman, trunk type system and teach her to use that as her means of up and down. Then there's always the ball and chain method to keep her grounded. A little creativity and you can figure something out.

Debbie

[tandemgal]

Well I am going to add a NEW thread - NEWSPAPER MOMENTS!

Debbie

There is a bumper sticker that says: Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

I had a total case of "bedroom blindness" - similar to Hubby's closet blindness and Leah's fridge blindness and Sons sock-on-the-floor blindness! But thanks to you I am cured!!!

[darci]

LOL


Where did that come from????????? LOL

[Chip's Mom]

Debbie - you have successfully chastised me. LOL You have made me aware that I have neglected his Royal Highness, Pawsitively Perfect Chip of Kentucky by not providing him with the suitable means so he can watch the world and/for "me" his loyal servant at all times. Now, I just have to think of a safe, sturdy structure that will serve the purpose. Any ideas anyone. No stilts please!

[Checkers]

Well, Checkers uses our coffee table. Yes, it is destroyed from claw marks, but it's one my husband picked out before we got married and I never liked it anyways so that is okay LOL. For us it happens to be the perfect height for Checkers to be able to look out of the window when perched on it. I think this is a funny conversation because my husband commented just yesterday that we should look for a house with very low or to the ground windows next time so Checkers can look out without having to use furniture LOL! Maybe then I can convince him to replace the current (very scratched) coffee table, hehe.

[corgimom]

Really cute picture and you were watching Animal Planet as well.

[Corgis'R4me]

Originally Posted by corgimom

Really cute picture and you were watching Animal Planet as well.

************************************************** ************
*~* I love seeing pictures. This one is very cute !

*~* Nikki

[Michael Romanos]

I think one can get really paranoia about Corgis jumping, not jumping or in other words being themselves or being discouraged through some perceived notion that Corgis are subject to acute back ailments brought on by jumping off a couch (for instance) or jumping up and down excitedly etc.
I think Corgi who are past the puppy stage are quite capable of jumping within reason without fear of injury. A Corgi, like any dog, can get injured through the most innocent of actions and there are Corgis who are not structured as well as they might be - they have brittleness probably as the result of a sub-standard diet. But generally speaking, Corgis can jump and jump and jump from six months to old age and never twink a muscle or damage a back or blink an eyelid.
Agility is one event that proves just how good Corgis are at jumping on and jumping off of obstacles. At one point when he had decided to forego contacting, Taylor was incorrectly jumping off the big dog A-frame from about five feet - and at speed and and with forward motion in the air (ie not just straight down). He did this on several occasions. I am not saying this should be in any way be encouraged, I am saying that Corgis are quite physically capable of doing it without harming themselves. One of my Corgis jumped (fell) from a bridge into a very shallow creek - all of 10-12 feet - and merely shook some water off of himself and carried on unruffled.

[tandemgal]

One of the factors that attracted Hubby to the corgi breed was their toughness. We have had 2 smaller dog b4 (schnauzers) who was also a tough little girls - with 2 younger active sons that is something that was needed. And with our big Golden Retriever she could handle them and play all day till they wore out LOL

But we hadn't had a long back dog till The Girls. Emma has never been a jumper - she tried when she was a puppy... would run 8 feet and try to jump onto the sofa only to bounce off about 1/2 way up. Needless to say she soon gave up her dreams of winning an agility trophy!

But with Chloe she is like a little kangaroo!

Our Golden's back was full of arthritus and bone spurs and was the reason we had to put her down. It was heartbreaking to see her suffer. The day I came home and found her in rain unable to move...trying to carry a 70 lb dog into the house... just want to be sure that my actions don't cause that happen to Chloebelle...

[Checkers]

I still must disagree with you on this one Michael. You COULD jump out of a two story building and not hurt yourself. That doesn't mean you could continue to do so every day, several times a day for a year and not sustain injuries that will cause you great pain and suffering! No matter how "tough" you or your dog is.. and they are an undoubtedly tough breed... there has to be some room for common sense. Especially for a young dog, a constant pounding on the joints in both frong legs and back could cause your beloved pet much pain later in his life. To me, it is well worth it to take the precaution of simply lifting Checkers off of the bed most of the time,to knowing that I caused him to suffer later in life. Particuarly if that suffering was a direct cause of my ego saying my dog was "tough" enough to handle it. Here is just one quote I have found in a quick search on skeletal disease.

"The musculoskeletal system changes constantly throughout life. These changes are most rapid during the first few months of life and slow with skeletal maturity (about 12 months for most breeds). The skeletal system is most susceptible to physical and metabolic insult during the first 12 months of life because of the heightened metabolic activity. The physical manifestation of these results can be lameness and/or altered growth. Both can affect locomotion and/or soundness of adult dogs."

"Trauma, whether obvious (e.g., hit by a car) or subtle (e.g., excessive weight) can adversely affect relatively weak growth centers and cause skeletal disease (e.g., angular limb deformities)."

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/P.../8442/HD1.html

So... the question here... is your dogs possible suffering later in life worth it just to prove that your dog is tough? I think most of us here would not agree with that. If you don't,then maybe you could try going and jumping off the roof of you house every day and see if eventually it doesn't cause you pain.

-Cheryl