Corgi breeder needed

[radioflyer02]

Hey,

First I am new to this site. I currently have a half catahoula leopard dog/half pembroke welsch corgi. She is a bundle and gidget fits her just right for a name.

I am wanting to become a corgi mom again, but sadly have had bad luck. I recently had purchased a tri color pembroke pup. Took her to my vet only to find out she had scarcoptic mange. I know this is curable, but 2 months keeping my dogs apart wasn't fair and I have an immune disorder, so having a dog with a disease that comes out with a lowered immune system would have not been good. so sadly, the pup had to go back. the breeder had said that her vet told her it was cradle cap (a human babies problem) i was needless to say, heart broken.

So being in the KC area I am looking for someone who breeds miniature corgis/teacup corgis. I need one smaller than the average 25-30 lb one. Anyone know of any who are reasonably priced? I don't need champion bloodlines attached.

Thanks!

[sweetlychee]

Good luck, radioflyer.

I have not heard or read on any miniature corgis before. Corgis are a bundle. have you thought about just getting the regular sized ones? They are still smaller compared to other dogs. =)

[behinderhereyes]

There is not such thing

[corgimom]

Originally Posted by radioflyer02

Hey,

First I am new to this site. I currently have a half catahoula leopard dog/half pembroke welsch corgi. She is a bundle and gidget fits her just right for a name.

I am wanting to become a corgi mom again, but sadly have had bad luck. I recently had purchased a tri color pembroke pup. Took her to my vet only to find out she had scarcoptic mange. I know this is curable, but 2 months keeping my dogs apart wasn't fair and I have an immune disorder, so having a dog with a disease that comes out with a lowered immune system would have not been good. so sadly, the pup had to go back. the breeder had said that her vet told her it was cradle cap (a human babies problem) i was needless to say, heart broken.

So being in the KC area I am looking for someone who breeds miniature corgis/teacup corgis. I need one smaller than the average 25-30 lb one. Anyone know of any who are reasonably priced? I don't need champion bloodlines attached.

Thanks!

I have never heard of a breeder producing miniature or teacup corgis.

[Jespah]

There is no such thing as teacup or miniature Corgis as said before. Perhaps you just need a breeder who produces dogs that are closer to the breed standard, rather than some who seem to be producing larger ones. Check out our thread on weight - you will see that there is quite a difference in the size of Corgis across the boards.

When you are saying you don't need bloodlines attached - does that mean you don't want a purebred and a mixed breed would be fine?

[glencorgi]

Linda writes:
"I have never heard of a breeder producing miniature or teacup corgis."

I have. Great marketing scam to rip people off, but I've seen them advertised. Price tag $1,500 plus. Any breeder advertising such, my advice would be to run not walk away as fast as one could.

Behindhereyes is exactly right though, there is no such thing. There are undersized corgis though and I know several. I've had a very petite girl a volume less than scrupulous breeder sold off because she wasn't able to carry litters to term (GEE, I wonder why?) and there was no money to be made off of her. She was overweight at 19 LBS, 17 to 18 LBS were the max she needed to carry. I know several adults that weigh in at 20 LBS or a little less. They are NOT teacup corgis, just undersized and small and they happen.

My recommendation would be to check with breeders in your area who might tend to have smaller corgis. <http://www.pwcca.org> under the members/breeders link will be a good place to start. And even though overall someone's corgis may tend to run on the lower end of the standard, doesn't mean that when they are full grown they won't grow into the middle or higher end of the scale. I know someone who had grand hopes for a 10" corgi for agility so they could run in the 8 inch class. This owner worked with a very responsible Breeder known for her correctly moderate corgis, some even leaning towards the smaller side. Puppies were evaluated for structure, temperament, size for the best potential candidate. Well those hopes were dashed when she reached 11" in height and now has to jump in the 12 inch class. She's flying, just a little higher over the clouds than was wished for. The message here is Mother Nature will have the last word regardless.

Debbie

[Dillydoodle]

I agree with debbie, about avoiding all the breeders who specifically sell "teacup" or "miniature" corgis. I do know of a breeder who is reputable in Maine who tends towards the smaller corgi - I have seen three of her dogs in my area, all three are much smaller than Dillon...both in height and length. Of the three i saw, one was a fluffy tri, the other two were normal coated tri colors. The name of her kennel is " Sippiwisset" You can find her information on the breeder referral page of the Mayflower Pembroke Welsh Corgi club - www.mayflowercorgiclub.org.
Emilie

[Michael Romanos]

We certainly don't want to produce a breed called Miniture Corgi nor a breed called Giant Mountain Corgi.
That Corgis are slowly yet gradually getting slightly bigger and being accepted as such in conformation showing is merely an evolution. But the Corgi world will not want to go into reverse mode and certainly not create another type of breed such as they have done so with Dachshunds. Anyone seeking a 'teacup' Corgi must be a little naive.

[Chip's Mom]

PLEASE don't be mad at me people but Michael - I just have to say it - I don't believe in evolution. My personal opinion is that corgis are getting bigger because some breeders are breeding outside of the standard. the AKC originally acknowledged the cardigans and the pembrokes as one breed, they probably were bred and registered. That may be why some are larger than others.

[Hayashi_eri]

I have always heard things like the smaller sized dogs are the runt of the pack...it simply means they get the least nutrition while in the womb thus they are so small. In the wild, the runt of the pack usually don't survive. Why would anyone want a under nourished corgi??

[Michael Romanos]

I agree with Debbie/Glencorgi who doesn't like the word 'runt' mainly because it is deogratory term on one hand and very often untrue on the other. I chose the 'runt' of the litter when I had first choice and the one I chose turned out to be the only champion in the show ring though two of the other male dogs were also participants at shows. Of course, My Ricky was no runt. He was in fact quite a big size - only that the other males were bigger still.

Bonnie- You may not accept evolution but it is happening in almost every breed among the 332 or so recognised breeds of dogs. As i have previously said, just compare today's Corgis with those of the 1930s and 1960s.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

PLEASE don't be mad at me people but Michael - I just have to say it - I don't believe in evolution. My personal opinion is that corgis are getting bigger because some breeders are breeding outside of the standard. the AKC originally acknowledged the cardigans and the pembrokes as one breed, they probably were bred and registered. That may be why some are larger than others.

Hang on guys - The definition of evolution applicable here is: "A gradual process of change or development." This happens with us, our dogs and every living being.

Corgis were never recognized as a single breed by AKC, they have always been two separate breeds in the US. In the earliest days the Kennel Club (the UK's version of AKC) did consider them one breed, but that was for a brief time period.

While the rumours run rampant and speculation is that the dogs in the show ring are getting ever slightly larger and there's a common one going around about a 50 LB Cardigan that wins - unless one weighs and measures, I wouldn't be so sure. There are so many things which factor into what our eyes perceive as size and often if the numbers were actually in front of us, I think there would be quite a few surprises. Overall size and balance is made up of a number of things: angulation - a corgi with straighter shoulder angulation is going to look taller than one with a correct layback. HOWEVER, the one with the better layback may in fact be taller than the one with straighter shoulders. How do I know this to be true? I measured a number of dogs I've had come through here for height and length. I know how to look and feel for shoulder angles. Some of my "brutes" of boys have actually come in shorter in length and height than some of the daintier looking girls. The amount of bone is another deceiver in size. A corgi with a ton of bone is going to look a lot bigger than one lighter in bone, not necessarily so, just looks that way. Even the amount and type of coat a corgi has influences the perception of size. A plush coat will make a corgi look much larger than one with a close coat even if the two dogs are identical in size. Shoot, fluffies often look huge compared to their regular coated siblings, not necessarily so. These are the kind of things one really needs to get their hands on actual dogs and go over them and then make calls.

The major change in size in the corgi standards since they were first written has to do mainly with weight. Weights have increased, the height has not. The earliest standards call for height for both breeds between 10 and 12 inches. In the early days of corgi recognition World War I was happening. During World War II the blue merle color in Cardigans was almost lost. Think about which gets priority on food sources, the soldiers? children? or dogs? Corgis are, at least weight wise, larger today due to better nutrition. We live longer than our grandparents due to better health care for example.

I was going to start another thread called "chicken or the egg" in regards to some of the things in the average size thread. Are show breeders breeding bigger corgis because judges are rewarding them with wins or are judges only rewarding bigger corgis because that is what breeders are bringing them in the show ring? There is really no reason to breed to improve the breed. The breed itself is just fine. There is a blueprint for a perfect specimen all spelled out and described. What breeders should be doing is breeding to the standard in everything it describes. There are no perfect breed specimens, so what a breeder is really trying to do is improve the dogs in front of them, the sire and the dam, in the next generation. I'm not sure where the idea came that I was giddy that Taylor was oversized in height. What I would look at from a breeder's perspective IF he were mine is should I breed a dog this size? The answer is MAYBE. And here is where an element of the art of breeding comes into play. He's a beautiful dog, he comes from great lines, his siblings and relatives are all very nice. Is that reason enough for me to use him as a stud? NO. It has to go deeper than that. What virtues and qualities does he have that are to die for? What is he going to do and contribute to my girl that I can't do without in my quest for the brass ring of producing a "perfect" corgi? IF he has "it," then yes I would use him. There are at least two schools of thought on correcting a fault. The first is one should breed to the most perfect dog they can find for the fault they wish to correct. The second is to breed to the most extreme example of correctness one can find. As an example of the latter, IF I want more size in my dogs, then I breed to oversized dogs. But Bonnie is right about the random breeders, those who breed just because someone has an intact dog to breed to - without paying attention to faults, then the next generation is only going to come out with those faults more firmly entrenched. That's called setting a trait and it works in reverse with correct qualities as well.

I do NOT believe there are as many 13 inch tall corgis on this list as was reported. Measuring for height is tricky and can only be accurately done with a wicket, measuring tapes aren't going to cut it for accuracy. Corgis are not excused from the show ring for height and weight "infractions" because these are not disqualifying faults in either breed. (In Pembrokes there are NO disqualifying faults.) They are supposed to be severely faulted, but it is doubtful that a judge will ever call for a wicket in the corgi rings. But I have news for Michael, in the US 10" corgis, even males are highly prized and sought after among serious agility competitors. They jump the lower heights and the breeds in the 8 inch jump division are not as competitively fast as many found in the 10 or 12 inch divisions. Thus they can get faster times, set course records and win a lot more High in Trials.

Eri's comments about "runts" is not really accurate either. I've held puppies with birth weights of nearly a pound that grew into being the smallest in the litter, kind of like a 10 pound human baby only growing up to be 5 feet tall, while a preemie grows to be over 6 feet.

The key word to remember when thinking of corgis is MODERATION! Read through both standards and see how often that word appears. One thing that Bonnie picked up on in the other thread was "throw backs." What needs to be kept in mind whenever a breeding takes place is that Mother Nature is always trying to revert back to the original corgis of days gone by. Or as a world reknown breeder judge (who has judged the NZKC specialty show) said, Mother Nature always tries to go back to the "ugliest common denominator." As for the corgi world not going into reverse mode and producing smaller end of the standard corgis - don't be so sure. Favored styles tend to go in phases. I've been around long enough to see several come and go.

Debbie