Hello to all other proud Corgi owners out there!

[Chip's Mom]

[html]
My Rottweiler only likes people he knows and even then they would still be dead if they threatened our family. He is a great guard dog and he can disarm people, we have never even trained him he just knows how even though he is actually a hunting Rottweiler. I like my dogs to have an independent mind and not just follow commands, not that independence is an issue here. lol

We had a rottweiler and he was a once in a lifetime dog. I would never own another because I would not be able to find one that filled his paws. He was a very well socialized dog and he loved everybody. He would never have "killed" anyone nor would I have wanted him to even to protect his home. That is what gives a rottie a bad rap. A rottie is actually a gentle giant if they have the right upbringing and socialization that is so necessary to the breed. He was neutered when he was 5 months old and he remained a puppy in mind throughout his short life span of 7 years. It is fine to have an animal that has an independent mind but they must be properly raised with gentle guidance so they will be well mannered and represent their breed in a positive way.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Cheyenne60041

Hi Peggy nice to meet you.
Actually I am quite sure that Lola is an alpha, her humping Lord's head when he is laying down has a lot to do with my convictions.

Humping in this case is more a sign of dominance as opposed to "alphaness." Females generally are alpha in the home when the other dog is a male. Still not conclusive evidence she is a true alpha.

Several years ago I was at a corgi gathering. A senior corgi girl decided she wished to stretch her legs. As she made her way through the yard, all the other corgis of all ages and both sexes stopped their games of chase and wrestling, as if parting and allowing her a clear path down the yard. She never curled a lip nor made any noise. THAT is a true alpha.

Debbie

[Hayashi_eri]

Hi Cheyenne, I am Eri with my 2yr old Pembroke gal (>_<)/ we are from Singapore (^^)

[corgimom]

Cheyenne,

Since you therefore do not plan on breeding Lola, I guess I don't understand why you would not want to spay her. I was under the impression that spaying will help increase the longevity of your dogs life by helping to prevent mammary cancer and from what I have read before, it is better to do it before the first heat cycle, but if that is not done, it is still better to do it than not at all. I guess I would rather have a dog that has a better chance of having a healthy life rather than being concerned about messing around with nature. Anyone is free to correct me here if I am wrong about this.

[Dillydoodle]

Additionally by not spaying her, and having her around an intact rottweiler, not only is he subject to hormonal changes everytime she is in heat ( which can be stressful to many dogs) but the opportunity is there for an accidental breeding. I wouldn't want to risk that if it were my dogs. Training IMHO is essential for a happy and well balanced dog. Also you mentioned not spaying or neutering due to not messing with nature...are you also against vaccinating your pets? just curious...

Also for other people reading this thread who might be looking for a puppy, I feel it is really important for me to mention that if a breeder is bringing you a puppy and you dont get to go to their place and see the parents that should send up red flags all over the place. I would have insisted on driving the 4 + hours to see her facility, to see how she keeps her dogs, to see the actual parents of the puppy i would be receiving, temperment of them particularly. I also would stay away from breeders who are breeding many different kinds of dogs and many litters a year - I checked on line and see that this breeder has multiple litters of corgis and a bunch of other breeds too. That would concern me. There is no way financially that a breeder could keep so many different dogs and be able to do health screening them all before they are being bred...another concern of mine...
Emilie

[Fluffypants]

Hi Cheyenne,
I know you are new and I hope you don't feel like we are ganging up on you. But these are all very important points that folks are making. The health benefits (alone) of spaying/neutering make them worth considering, especially if you don't plan to breed (not sure if you are or not, you seem to be undecided?). And if you ARE planning to breed - temperament should be a big concern when you breed a dog, as well as making sure they have all of the proper health screenings (and also checking back through the lines for problems - will you be able to do that, given the person you got Lola from?). Regardless of all of this, I know you would not want to jeopardize Lola's life, you obviously love her. So please do lots of research before making this very important decision, because it could go very badly for you (but more importantly, for HER).

[Bayoucorgi]

HI Cheyenne. Welcome. Sorry, I have to agree with the people who advise to learn a lot more about dog breeding before jumping in. First PLEASE educate yourself on pet overpopulation. My beloved Liam came from rescue. He's purebred, had papers, and was purposely produced. His breeder didn't screen prospective homes and at 8 months he was surrendered to rescue. The breeder wasn't there to stand by the puppy for it's lifetime and thankfully some selfless people who rescue Corgis got him and I was able to adopt him.

Secondly, spaying and neutering isn't "messing with nature". Having and breeding purebred dogs in messing with nature. We are artificially selecting mates to produce dogs with specific looks, temperaments, intincts and abilities. Dogs are not people. Having a dog sterilized is NOTHING like not having your child circumcised. Hopefully, your son will not be seeking to impregnate any girl in a hormone-driven frenzy when he senses she is receptive.

Please read the breed standards of the breeds you are thinking of producing. Your animals should be within the size recommendations. They should have sound, reliable temperaments. Liam is a "wolverine", but he is not vicious. Maybe you are misleading us with the v-word. Play aggression is not the same. But if there is any clue of real aggression that dog must never be bred. Mean produces mean.

When you say your Rottie "deserves" to add his genes to the gene pool I wonder. How do you know what his genes are? You can't see his genes. I bred dogs for 30 years. I had them x-rayed, opthalmologist screened, blood-tested, cardiologist checked. I spent big dollars. I bred cleared, titled Champions. I knew the extended pedigrees including siblings for many generations. Even then, we had occasional issues. I GUARANTEE you will be producing more problems with uncleared dogs.

I know we may seem strident in our views. It's not that we don't like you. Promise! We (or I guess I should say I) want you to learn more about the big picture of dog breeding and then make an informed decision about producing better dogs, not just more dogs. Check "Petfinder.com". Purebred, beautiful Corgis and Rotties are available there every day. And many more don't make it there. They die in shelters all over. Mean ones die first. Been there, SEEN it.

I hope the best for you. You obviously love and are proud of your dogs. I hope you will someday become a "reputable" breeder and not just someone one step above a puppy mill.

[Cheyenne60041]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

Welcome Cheyenne, Lola and Lord,

Man you have hit on a lot of temperament and behavioral issues in Lola that do not bode well as her being a candidate for breeding.



I just placed a rescue this past weekend that was "purebred" and had "papers" (ACA registery) and well she was reminiscent of Queen Elizabeth's first corgis in breed "type." I've also had an AKC registered PWC that looked like someone took a beagle, a corgi and a Parson Russell Terrier - threw them in a pot, stirred it up and out he popped - but he had papers! Again, that's not necessarily what I wish to address here. Temperament and paper issues aside, you are very right to be concerned about her being able to deliver or even carry puppies at her size. I had a rescue some years back Lola's size. She was discarded by her volume breeding "breeder" because she could not successfully carry and whelp a litter. As Peggy mentioned, c-section risks are high enough in well-bred within standard b*tches, to risk the life of an undersized one doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

Debbie

Hi Debbie, very nice to meet you.
Just wanted to say that we love our little viciousness just the way she is. Except maybe Lord because she wouldn't let back in the house this afternoon.
lol It was hilarious; everytime Lord would try to go into the house Lola would defend the threshhold from him. She was paying him back for ignoring her and playing with our neighbor Cocker Spaniel, Charlie. lol
As far as breeding Lola I gave up on that idea over a year ago, ever since I realized that she wasnt' getting any bigger. I would not risk my princesses life for anything, she is our little precious viciousness. I love puppies, but the primary reason why we wanted them was because we wanted to keep one girl for ourselves. Now we will have to buy another little girl, although I was thinking about maybe adopting a female Corgi puppy if I could find one under 6 months old. The younger the better though because Lola takes care and "raises" puppies, but not after they are past 6 months old. I guess they are big enough to fend for themselves at that point. Actually if I believed in reincarnation I would say that Lola is a reincarnation of my first dog a poodle named Kassy who died a little over a month before Lola was born. There is just so much of the same behavior, likes and dislikes that it's just uncanny.....
maybe there is something to all that reincarnation talk. Who knows?

[Cheyenne60041]

Originally Posted by Bayoucorgi

HI Cheyenne. Welcome. Sorry, I have to agree with the people who advise to learn a lot more about dog breeding before jumping in. First PLEASE educate yourself on pet overpopulation. My beloved Liam came from rescue. He's purebred, had papers, and was purposely produced. His breeder didn't screen prospective homes and at 8 months he was surrendered to rescue. The breeder wasn't there to stand by the puppy for it's lifetime and thankfully some selfless people who rescue Corgis got him and I was able to adopt him.

Secondly, spaying and neutering isn't "messing with nature". Having and breeding purebred dogs in messing with nature. We are artificially selecting mates to produce dogs with specific looks, temperaments, intincts and abilities. Dogs are not people. Having a dog sterilized is NOTHING like not having your child circumcised. Hopefully, your son will not be seeking to impregnate any girl in a hormone-driven frenzy when he senses she is receptive.

Please read the breed standards of the breeds you are thinking of producing. Your animals should be within the size recommendations. They should have sound, reliable temperaments. Liam is a "wolverine", but he is not vicious. Maybe you are misleading us with the v-word. Play aggression is not the same. But if there is any clue of real aggression that dog must never be bred. Mean produces mean.

When you say your Rottie "deserves" to add his genes to the gene pool I wonder. How do you know what his genes are? You can't see his genes. I bred dogs for 30 years. I had them x-rayed, opthalmologist screened, blood-tested, cardiologist checked. I spent big dollars. I bred cleared, titled Champions. I knew the extended pedigrees including siblings for many generations. Even then, we had occasional issues. I GUARANTEE you will be producing more problems with uncleared dogs.

I know we may seem strident in our views. It's not that we don't like you. Promise! We (or I guess I should say I) want you to learn more about the big picture of dog breeding and then make an informed decision about producing better dogs, not just more dogs. Check "Petfinder.com". Purebred, beautiful Corgis and Rotties are available there every day. And many more don't make it there. They die in shelters all over. Mean ones die first. Been there, SEEN it.

I hope the best for you. You obviously love and are proud of your dogs. I hope you will someday become a "reputable" breeder and not just someone one step above a puppy mill.

Hi Bayoucorgi,
I think that everybody keeps misunderstanding when I say about breeding Lord or Lola. I don't mean having a litter of puppies every 6 months or a year, just once or twice during their lifetime certainly not for profit. As far as Lola's puppies would have went had she had any I have actually had 7 people waiting for the non-existent little guys to be conceived and born. Money issue completely aside anybody who wanted one of my puppies would have had to fill out an application and once I have approved it, more paperwork than most people would fill-out applying for a loan at the bank + a contract stating that at any time they do not want that puppy it HAS to come back to me. I got that idea from the contract that I had to sign for my Rottweiler. As far as Lord's lineage and bloodlines go he is a descendant of many times champions. He is a grandson of Couragious Cuz and Ninja, you can look them up on the breeders website www.bigdogkennel.com, as far as his currently non-existent puppies would go I already have about 20 homes of people that I know and trust to pick from (I am Russian and Russians love Rottweilers) homes for my Baby's babies.
And just so that I make that clear for the future I DO NOT want to be a "breeder" of any kind, I just want to know that something of my Baby's lives on when he are gone (hopefully not for many, many years).
As far as neutering goes, my dogs are never unattended or loose especially Lord or Lola when she is in heat. Unwanted puppies are not dog's fault, it's the owners' for not being caredul enough. Dogs don't know any better, but people do know better and there are still families with too many children. Human population #s are in billions, a staggering burden for our planet.....so who should be "fixed" first? I have 1 child and that's the way it will stay. I should hope that after everything I have told and taught my son, he will know better than have more than 1 child in his lifetime. As far as selective breeding and screening goes, in my opinion humans could use some of that as well; perhaps then there would less people like Moulder brothers, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, etc. in the world.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Cheyenne60041

Actually I am quite sure that Lola is an alpha, her humping Lord's head when he is laying down has a lot to do with my convictions. Also the fact that as long as other dogs acknowledge that she is in charge and stay away from her family (us, we are her property lol) she will not attack them.

Sounds more like an alpha wanna be. Did you read the article I directed you to? A true alpha doesn't have to do anything to show they are an alpha. They just "are" and the other dogs know it.

She was the only puppy from this breeder within the driving distance since the breeder lives 4-6 hours south of where I lived and was only this far north to drop off a couple of puppies of different breeds for pick-up.

For me that's another clue that it's not a reputable breeder. Reputable breeders do not drop off several puppies to new owners at a time. Reputable breeders take the time to have a one on one time with new owners and go over lots of things that a new owner needs to know.

Lola was 2-nd of 7 puppies that were all born healthy and naturally not that that means anything.

Just that mom was a natural whelper.

However I would not neuter Lola or Lord, I just don't believe in messing with nature (my son is not circumsized for that same reason).

Dogs are not people, and well, I think dogs benefit from being altered. She won't go through heat cyles which can lead to unplanned pregnancys. What if she gets bred by a dog larger than she is? Having those puppies could kill her.

Also, mammory tumors and pyometia can happen with unspayed females. IMO, man was giving the talents/knowlege to be able to help animals and altering is one of those ways. She would be just fine altered. Wouldn't bother her at all.

As for Lola's temperament I wouldn't want her to be any other way, we love our Vicious when she is being vicious.....she is just so cute! lol

And we get many dogs in to rescue when people can no longer deal with what they once thought was cute. This is a diaster waiting to happen. She will only get worse and will eventually try to boss the people. What happens when she bites you or your son. Sorry but this behavior is NOT cute and needs to be corrected ASAP.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Cheyenne60041

As far as Lola's puppies would have went had she had any I have actually had 7 people waiting for the non-existent little guys to be conceived and born.

I've heard that story too, and when the puppies are born they have a reason for not getting one. NOT a good reason to breed.

As far as Lord's lineage and bloodlines go he is a descendant of many times champions. He is a grandson of Couragious Cuz and Ninja, you can look them up on the breeders website www.bigdogkennel.com,

I don't see any champions on their site. No show pictures either. All I see is a someone who is breeding dogs. Either a back yard breeder or commerical breeder. This is not a reputable kennel either.

Even with the most attentive owners, accidental breedings happen. Dogs can be very innovative when it comes to breeding. Your rottweiler could tear down a door if he wanted to, and get to her.

IMO, your reasons for not altering are not vaild.

Peggy

[Dillydoodle]

I looked at the kennel too , they breed three different breeds and in just rotties there were 8 litters born in 2004 -While you might love your corgi's attitude and temperment, the aggression and bullying is not a breed trait that really should be passed on. If you breed your dog once or twice in their lifetime ,that still falls under the definition of "breeding" a dog...some of the top reputable breeders only breed their females twice in a life time...Ihave to agree with Peggy on this one..

It really must be a full moon...
Emilie

[corgimom]

Cheyenne,

Were you aware that the breeder that you got Lola from(you posted her kennel name), breeds 19 different breeds of dogs and she has multiple litters going with several of the breeds. There is no way this person does any health screening on any of these dogs before she breeds them.

[manymuddypaws]

You know- I was trying really hard to keep my mouth shut, but well, I am not so good at that (much like my corgis...)
First off- the breeding issue,
Neither of the places you got your dogs from are reputable sources- which is fine- I made an error in judgement myself and bought my shepherd from a backyard breeder and have been paying the price for 8 years. The problem I have with you is that I don't believe that you are not intending on breeding these dogs. Your first post was all gung-ho about breeding etc, and then when we all jumped on you about it you have changed your tune, saying that you don't intend to breed. I find that a bit weird.

I have looked up the kennel where Lola is from and like other members here am alarmed that she breeds a ton of puppies- I googled her name and she has more than 21 breeds- I guess those are just the ones she admits to. And she is the president of some weird pet breeders registry thing...which makes it really suspicious....I believe someone else has commented on these registries aaswell- but these types of registries are generally geared towards commercial breeders and puppy millers- you can register anything, and no one cares how many litters or how many breeds you have....

And where the big dog is from is almost as bad- they do health clearances (OFA at least) on their dogs which is a good thing. However, mostly they appear to be breeding for profit- not a good thing. And the sire you talked about is not even a good represenative of the breed- it looks as though they are breeding for size and little else...not to mention that to make their dogs look "giant" they are all very fat!

I am sure your dogs are both really nice dogs- you obviously love them which is very important but when you are considering breeding you should be breeding to better the breed- to make a dog closer to that breeds standard- not picking one trait (i,e size) or having a litter because your dog is cute and afterall everyone wants one...
My dog Sam- a cardigan is a result of that class of breeding. He was sold to people who just had to have a corgi and by the time he was two years old he was biting, barking, and possesive of everything. He was surrendered to a high kill shelter and almost euthanised. My breeder heard he was there and went and got him- it turns out he is a product of her stud dog...(long story)
He is a fabulous dog- for me- I like his energy, I taught him not to be possesive, not to bite, and how to be calm- things his first owners never bothered to teach him or thought it was cute at first when he would growl at them on the couch, or grab their pant leg. -Peggy is right and Lola's bad attitude and behavour should be changed ASAP. Of course- if you want to live with that for 15 years then all the power to you, but I warn you it is not always that cute...and she may try to "castrate" the wrong dog and end up dead.

just my .02cents....
oh, and welcome to the forum, I know you may not feel very welcome at the moment but all of us here LOVE our dogs- and specifically corgis. We are a protective lot when it comes to corgis, and of course when you get a group of people together everyone has an opinion- and sometimes it is not the same as everyone elses. Regardless, Welcome and hopefully we can help you to understand why we feel the way we do....
-amanda

[Cheyenne60041]

Originally Posted by manymuddypaws

You know- I was trying really hard to keep my mouth shut, but well, I am not so good at that (much like my corgis...)
First off- the breeding issue,
Neither of the places you got your dogs from are reputable sources- which is fine- I made an error in judgement myself and bought my shepherd from a backyard breeder and have been paying the price for 8 years. The problem I have with you is that I don't believe that you are not intending on breeding these dogs. Your first post was all gung-ho about breeding etc, and then when we all jumped on you about it you have changed your tune, saying that you don't intend to breed. I find that a bit weird.

I have looked up the kennel where Lola is from and like other members here am alarmed that she breeds a ton of puppies- I googled her name and she has more than 21 breeds- I guess those are just the ones she admits to. And she is the president of some weird pet breeders registry thing...which makes it really suspicious....I believe someone else has commented on these registries aaswell- but these types of registries are generally geared towards commercial breeders and puppy millers- you can register anything, and no one cares how many litters or how many breeds you have....

And where the big dog is from is almost as bad- they do health clearances (OFA at least) on their dogs which is a good thing. However, mostly they appear to be breeding for profit- not a good thing. And the sire you talked about is not even a good represenative of the breed- it looks as though they are breeding for size and little else...not to mention that to make their dogs look "giant" they are all very fat!

I am sure your dogs are both really nice dogs- you obviously love them which is very important but when you are considering breeding you should be breeding to better the breed- to make a dog closer to that breeds standard- not picking one trait (i,e size) or having a litter because your dog is cute and afterall everyone wants one...
My dog Sam- a cardigan is a result of that class of breeding. He was sold to people who just had to have a corgi and by the time he was two years old he was biting, barking, and possesive of everything. He was surrendered to a high kill shelter and almost euthanised. My breeder heard he was there and went and got him- it turns out he is a product of her stud dog...(long story)
He is a fabulous dog- for me- I like his energy, I taught him not to be possesive, not to bite, and how to be calm- things his first owners never bothered to teach him or thought it was cute at first when he would growl at them on the couch, or grab their pant leg. -Peggy is right and Lola's bad attitude and behavour should be changed ASAP. Of course- if you want to live with that for 15 years then all the power to you, but I warn you it is not always that cute...and she may try to "castrate" the wrong dog and end up dead.

just my .02cents....
oh, and welcome to the forum, I know you may not feel very welcome at the moment but all of us here LOVE our dogs- and specifically corgis. We are a protective lot when it comes to corgis, and of course when you get a group of people together everyone has an opinion- and sometimes it is not the same as everyone elses. Regardless, Welcome and hopefully we can help you to understand why we feel the way we do....
-amanda

Hi manymuddypaws,
As far as breeding goes, yes I absolutly would LOVE to for Lola to have puppies, but she is too small and no much how I much love and want puppies I would NEVER risk her health or her life.
As far as Lord goes I have been looking him for a mate for a long time and out of all the females that were available, not a single one was good enough for my baby. Actually I am starting to wonder if any would ever be good enough.
As far as Lola's temperament goes, I am quite happy since we understand each other very well! After all most of the time when it comes to people I am a bigger bitch on my best day than she is on her worst. lol
Thank you for the welcome and no I don't take an offense to anything people say. Hey, after all they are entitled to their opinion same as I am entitled to mine and God knows I express it whenever I feel like to whomever I feel like. lol