I'm Jon from Columbus, OH

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by v3rs3

Shelby is about 20 months old. This is her third heat cycle. I've heard of people breeding after the first heat cycle.

I've heard of it too, and it isn't done by ethical or responsible Breeders, neither is breeding without appropriate health testing - eyes, hips, and vWD evaluations (and these don't come with a regular vet wellness check).

I think she'll be fine. A woman who boards her horse at the same farm as us works at a vet office that specializes in dog pregnancy, so I think we'll be fine as well.

I'm sure she will - lots of familiar stories and even names popping up.

The male we've chosen to stud her is a very calm and loving tri that we found threw a local breeder website. This is her website, Buckeye Pembroke Welsh Corgis, the male at the bottom "Rockstar" is the male who will be the stud.

He should help give her more substance, better shoulders and head.

Debbie

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Top Corgi breeders in New Zealand and Australia will allow a female as young as 14 month to become pregnant as long as they are knowledgeable about the female in question.

Knowledgeable meaning they know how their dam's whelped along with aunt's, grandmothers, etc. There is an established line being dealt with, not quite the situation here. They're into horses though and have the vet aspects covered, so should be a piece of cake.

Debbie

[v3rs3]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

Knowledgeable meaning they know how their dam's whelped along with aunt's, grandmothers, etc. There is an established line being dealt with, not quite the situation here. They're into horses though and have the vet aspects covered, so should be a piece of cake.

I mean I know this is our first time, but we have researched a ton on this subject for the past year and a half. We know quite a few breeders through her job as well. We definitely have all aspects covered and aren't expecting to make money doing it. We've set aside plenty of cash incase something were to happen as well. We want our friends and family to have the same joy that we have with our Corgi's. We just love the breed so much we think everyone should have one(or two).

[v3rs3]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

I've heard of it too, and it isn't done by ethical or responsible Breeders, neither is breeding without appropriate health testing - eyes, hips, and vWD evaluations (and these don't come with a regular vet wellness check).




I'm sure she will - lots of familiar stories and even names popping up.



He should help give her more substance, better shoulders and head.

Debbie

I actually like the fact that Shelby is a smaller corgi because most of the ones with more substance as you say just end up fat looking. I like shelby's puppy look more. i guess she is one of those dogs you have to see to understand. the breeder with the stud has been breeding for 16 years and i'm sure if she felt shelby didn't meet standard she wouldn't breed to her.

I understand where your coming from because there are alot of stupid people out there that think they will make money off the puppies but I am a dog trainer as well so thats not really what i have in mind.

- The Wife.

[glencorgi]

My comments are going to come from the perspective and taking your word that you have studied the standard and done breed research and are breeding to improve your bitch, which is what breeding to the standard means.

Originally Posted by v3rs3

I actually like the fact that Shelby is a smaller corgi because most of the ones with more substance as you say just end up fat looking.

There is a big difference between being fine boned and having correct moderate bone and being over done.

I like shelby's puppy look more. i guess she is one of those dogs you have to see to understand. the breeder with the stud has been breeding for 16 years and i'm sure if she felt shelby didn't meet standard she wouldn't breed to her.

I've seen her style of corgi many, many times - very typical of horse background breeders. For the record, there are no disqualifying faults in the Pembroke standard. Faults I see in her photos are a terrier strait front, lack of chest and very strait in the shoulder. Phenotypically, the stud dog chosen for her will hopefully improve those features. As far as the stud dog owner allowing you to breed to her dog, having looked at her "breeders" and their get, how well Shelby does or does not conform to the standard has very little to do with being able to breed to him.

I understand where your coming from because there are alot of stupid people out there that think they will make money off the puppies but I am a dog trainer as well so thats not really what i have in mind.

As I mentioned earlier, you've got all the bases covered and an answer for every contingency. You'll be fine. However, the below quote does push my button:

We just love the breed so much we think everyone should have one(or two).

NO, everyone should NOT have one (or two) corgis. NO ONE breed is RIGHT for everyone and in the wrong home corgis are disasters. You see I am the rescue chair for my regional Pembroke club as well as being the regional director for the national Cardigan rescue. I'm the one who cleans up after placements such as the comment implies. Corgis are great breeds and wonderful companions for the right homes who are up to the challenges the breeds can present. I take strong exception that everyone should have a corgi, the evidence and my experience, along with the 300 plus others on the Corgi Rescue list know it to be not the case.

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Corgis are a far far better, easier breed to deal with than most other breeds of dogs. There are many many people who have a breed of dog they cannot handle well and a Corgi would be infinitely better for them. Having said that I would not wish Corgis upon a large minority of owners who are mediocre/poor/bad dog owners.
Take my neice who got a Lab-cross for her six children. Not able to handle a big, strong dog. The dog took the kids for a walk and bowled them over. A Corgi much better, easier but I don't believe that dogs are for children to 'own' (there is the exception of one in several million).

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Corgis are a far far better, easier breed to deal with than most other breeds of dogs. There are many many people who have a breed of dog they cannot handle well and a Corgi would be infinitely better for them.

Michael you have been fortunate to have been exposed to predominantly well-bred good tempered corgis. In the US there are far more randomly bred, bred just to be breeding corgi puppies, bred for the profit of corgi puppies and a litany of other reasons corgis are produced.

Having said that I would not wish Corgis upon a large minority of owners who are mediocre/poor/bad dog owners.

Given that I've worked on four rescue corgis today alone, somedays it seems there is more than a minority of " mediocre/poor/bad dog owners."

Take my neice who got a Lab-cross for her six children. Not able to handle a big, strong dog. The dog took the kids for a walk and bowled them over.

What training did she do with the Lab-cross? With the right training, time and effort put into ownership, it should have been a wonderful family dog for them.

A Corgi much better, easier

Not without the proper training of both the dog and the children. If what you postulate is true, then why do I get all the calls from owners who say they read in some book or some website that corgis are supposed to be good with children, but their's is a little monster? In most cases, the corgi isn't a bad dog at all, it has become a little "monster" because no time, effort, structure, training was given to the corgi, it forgot to read the book.

... but I don't believe that dogs are for children to 'own' (there is the exception of one in several million).

Agreed, if the adults are not going to be responsible for the dog they are bringing into the home, then they it doesn't need a dog.

Debbie

[v3rs3]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

Not without the proper training of both the dog and the children. If what you postulate is true, then why do I get all the calls from owners who say they read in some book or some website that corgis are supposed to be good with children, but their's is a little monster? In most cases, the corgi isn't a bad dog at all, it has become a little "monster" because no time, effort, structure, training was given to the corgi, it forgot to read the book.



Agreed, if the adults are not going to be responsible for the dog they are bringing into the home, then they it doesn't need a dog.

Debbie

Any dog can turn into a little "monster" as you said. people are just stupid and walk into petland and go awww what a cute little puppy, have no idea about the breed and then it ends up in the shelter because they don't want to take the time to train it. Most people don't know shit about the breed of dog they own. also i wasn't the one who said that whole thing about everyone should own a corgi... that was my husband. i know from being a trainer that a corgi would be a horrible dog for some people but yet so could a lab which is why when someone ask me what kind of dog i think they should get all i say is look up different breeds before you buy/adopt.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by v3rs3

Any dog can turn into a little "monster" as you said. people are just stupid and walk into petland and go awww what a cute little puppy, have no idea about the breed and then it ends up in the shelter because they don't want to take the time to train it.

As far as my numbers go for owner turn-ins, pet shop purchases are the next to the least percentages I see, responsibly bred dogs from Breeders (breeders with a capital B that is) are the least. My two youngest fosters to date were pet shop purchases, one being the cliche "awww factored impulse purchase, the other was a make up gift from a boyfriend to his girlfriend who'd always wanted a corgi. The bulk of our program's fosters and rescues come from horsey background breeders. There is a lot of "awwww impulse factor" in many of the purchases there too. Corgis as barn accessories or horse show accessories, plus selling to anyone who has the $ and taking no responsibility for puppies produced after a sale has been made keeps me sadly far busier than I would like to be. Ohio Corgi Rescue groups had something like 300 plus corgis go through their programs last year.

Most people don't know shit about the breed of dog they own.

You said a mouthful there.

also i wasn't the one who said that whole thing about everyone should own a corgi... that was my husband.

I apologize for not making that point clearer, I was only saving a little space and combining two responses into one.

i know from being a trainer that a corgi would be a horrible dog for some people but yet so could a lab which is why when someone ask me what kind of dog i think they should get all i say is look up different breeds before you buy/adopt.

A big part of responsible breeding is responsibly placing the puppies, matching personalities and temperaments correctly with families. One size does not fit all, even within a litter. Research is very important, and the majority of people spend more time finding out all there is to know about the latest video game system than they do about acquiring a pet for their family. What kind of facility do you teach dog training at? What kind of training do you teach? The board is always in need of pointers from good trainers.

Debbie

[Louwants]

Hey Jon,
Does your wife do behavorial training of humans...LOL! Duncan is a little stubborn thing, and could use better training. The real training is with my husband. He spoils the dogs rotten, you know, the parent that gives in to the kids.....that's him. I make him and Chloe sit before I pet them when I come home from work, so that they don't jump all over me. Him....he encourages them to jump on him when he comes home. Poor dogs have to be so confused at times. I will take some of the blame, such as the bad manners on the leash. I have problems doing walks due to my arthritis in my knees and feet, so they don't have much training there. They pull for a few minutes, cause of the excitement, but then they calm down. Still, I wouldn't give my dogs up for the world. In fact, I think my husbad would almost give me up before the dogs; and this comes from a man who didn't think a dog was worth the trouble. He'd always been a cat person, never had a dog.

[v3rs3]

[quote=A big part of responsible breeding is responsibly placing the puppies, matching personalities and temperaments correctly with families. One size does not fit all, even within a litter. Research is very important, and the majority of people spend more time finding out all there is to know about the latest video game system than they do about acquiring a pet for their family. What kind of facility do you teach dog training at? What kind of training do you teach? The board is always in need of pointers from good trainers.

Debbie[/QUOTE]


Yeah i think if i have any of the puppies go to people i don't know well i'll have them microchipped in my name just incase they get sent to a shelter years down the road. most people rather buy a petland puppy though because thats whats easy. Going to a good breed is too hard because they will ask you a million questions. There was a lady in one of my classes with a petland dog and she went to have it spayed and found out it had no female insides... none of them... it was just a girl on the outside and it had no adult teeth under its baby teeth at all. I do have a petland corgi though so i'm not putting her down but my puppy had been there for 3 months... thats no way to live but she is dumb as rocks. i would never feel bad for another one again haha.


Anyway I'm a training at petsmart in hilliard. We use all reward based training.
We just deal with your normal everyday problems such as jumping up.
I just started training there and i like it because we can help alot of people that probably would of taken their dog to the shelter for something stupid that can be fixed. i use to work at a pet hotel and people had the worst trained dogs so thats why i decided to be a trainer. plus i've worked with and trained horses before so i figured i could learn to train dogs pretty easy.

[fogebotom]

"Yeah i think if i have any of the puppies go to people i don't know well i'll have them microchipped in my name just incase they get sent to a shelter years down the road. most people rather buy a petland puppy though because thats whats easy. "


Been sitting here reading all the replys--thank you Debbie once again for being able to word things so well, I might just stick my foot in my mouth down the page here.

If you think a little microchip is going to make a difference, you have no idea. Owner surrenders to shelters are almost never checked for chips! I should know, a well researched placement of mine where I had constant contact with the person every 2-3 mos, owner surrender to a shelter and if cardigan rescue hadn't been looking in their local shelters, he would have slipped through the cracks. Most people will "loose" the dog, or surrender it to a shelter because they are too embarassed to contact the breeder-feeling they have failed and will look bad. I suggest contracts, spay/neuter, get references and plan on keeping contact with that person for years regardless of how well you know them. Make them understand that the dog always comes back to you first if they can't keep it.

And a word about being a trainer and being qualified to deal with breeding, whelping and raising a litter of puppies-I am a trainer, have been for over 15 years now. Doesn't give me the license to breed a dog. Many people who I train with won't breed, don't breed, shouldn't breed. I spent over 5 years working with a trainer then helping and learning from a breeder before I got my first show dog and then a few more years before I thought about breeding and even then it wasn't to fullfill the need of others. It was to correct the things my dogs lacked structurally and to produce my next show dog. I never ever breed because someone wants a dog just like Moose or Fred or Marg. I'm selfish, I breed for my own personal gains:0)

Off my soap box and ready to insert foot,

Cindy and the crew at Foggy Bottom

[v3rs3]

Originally Posted by fogebotom

"Yeah i think if i have any of the puppies go to people i don't know well i'll have them microchipped in my name just incase they get sent to a shelter years down the road. most people rather buy a petland puppy though because thats whats easy. "


Been sitting here reading all the replys--thank you Debbie once again for being able to word things so well, I might just stick my foot in my mouth down the page here.

If you think a little microchip is going to make a difference, you have no idea. Owner surrenders to shelters are almost never checked for chips! I should know, a well researched placement of mine where I had constant contact with the person every 2-3 mos, owner surrender to a shelter and if cardigan rescue hadn't been looking in their local shelters, he would have slipped through the cracks. Most people will "loose" the dog, or surrender it to a shelter because they are too embarassed to contact the breeder-feeling they have failed and will look bad. I suggest contracts, spay/neuter, get references and plan on keeping contact with that person for years regardless of how well you know them. Make them understand that the dog always comes back to you first if they can't keep it.

And a word about being a trainer and being qualified to deal with breeding, whelping and raising a litter of puppies-I am a trainer, have been for over 15 years now. Doesn't give me the license to breed a dog. Many people who I train with won't breed, don't breed, shouldn't breed. I spent over 5 years working with a trainer then helping and learning from a breeder before I got my first show dog and then a few more years before I thought about breeding and even then it wasn't to fullfill the need of others. It was to correct the things my dogs lacked structurally and to produce my next show dog. I never ever breed because someone wants a dog just like Moose or Fred or Marg. I'm selfish, I breed for my own personal gains:0)

Off my soap box and ready to insert foot,

Cindy and the crew at Foggy Bottom

I didn't say being a trainer qualified me to breed dogs. I really don't feel like wasting my time fighting with people on this board any longer though. Think what you like. I don't join boards like these because its a waste of time. mostly everyone on online forums just wants to put down everything you say to make themself feel better. You don't know me or the type of person i am so who are you to judge. My husband joined this forum and i have no idea why he bothers.

[glencorgi]

In spite of what you might think of Cindy's comments, she is absolutely right about microchips creating a false sense of security. Shelters may or may not scan for chips and they may or may not contact you. Some shelters have been known to contact a breeder to say they had a dog of their breeding but would under no circumstances release it to the breeder in spite of all efforts to take responsibility for a dog of their breeding. When placing puppies a Breeder tries to cover every contingency possible to make sure the home they are placing a puppy in is going to offer a lifetime commitment by carefully screening homes and matching the right puppy to the family dynamics. They use spay/neuter contracts, have first right of refusal clauses in their contracts and willingly take any dog of their breeding back at any point in its lifetime should the home be unable to keep it. Once those puppies begin arriving and you have several sleepless nights walking the floor, watching and worrying over a pup that might not be thriving, then the reason for allllllll those questions Breeders ask might make a little more sense. We have a lot invested in a litter, picking the right stud, knowing what we hope to improve in both the parents, nail biting that all the health checks come back passing and clear, monitoring the dam as her belly grows, trying ungodly combinations of foods in hopes she'll eat and keep up her strength, watching for the least sign of stress, working diligently on a puppy that is slow to start ... and often we've been through the same thing with her dam and brought this new mom to be into the world. We have a lot vested in a breeding. FWIW, when I place a foster/rescue dog, I use the same screening and qualifying as if it were a puppy I bred.

In spite of all precautions we take to place our puppies or rescue wisely and responsibly, alas life happens and there is no predicting what an owner will do in spite of all back ups put into place or how well we know someone.

Just as one further word of advice, please don't sell dogs short or believe they'll be "easy" because you have a horse background. Cindy has a very strong horse background, but I think she'll be one of the first to admit; general horse people rarely "get" dogs. One would think the knowledge of structure and movement and the standards required in breeding horses would translate over, but evidence (and there is multitudes of it) does not support this happening.

Good luck with your litter.

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

v3 rs3 - There is always some good advice from someone on Go Corgi but sometimes one has to fight an uphill battle. Take a leaf from GW Bush and hang in there.
I look forward to the Pem pups that you are breeding. Good luck. It is a big responsibility and I am sure you will be able to cope.
One of my friends has two Pems (Zara and Murphy) and is very often out riding her horse. Her sister who lives in the country (Wairarapa) has bred one or two Pem litters.