This is Odie

[Chip's Mom]

I don't think that I have ever seen a pem with a white ear so this would be considered a mismark - did I read that right? Taffy has black on each side of her little (big) mouth, not alot but some - is that a mismark?

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

I don't think that I have ever seen a pem with a white ear so this would be considered a mismark - did I read that right? Taffy has black on each side of her little (big) mouth, not alot but some - is that a mismark?

Yes, a white ear is a mismark in Pems.

And no the black around the mouth is not. Black can be on the muzzle. We call that a "smutty" muzzle. It's fine.


Peggy

[Chip's Mom]

Thanks peggy I had wondered about that. I call it a big mouth muzzle. LOL For such a little girl she has the biggest yap I have heard.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

Thanks peggy I had wondered about that. I call it a big mouth muzzle. LOL For such a little girl she has the biggest yap I have heard.

Hopefully she'll one day soon get her "big dogl" voice. Merlin used to yap, and I knew he had a deeper bark. I started telling him to use his "big dog" bark. The yaps can be quite ear peircing!

Peggy

[jakort1]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

It will hold true for both breeds. We can use the genetics for white ear. While not a mismark in Cardigans, it would be in Pems. White ear bred to white ear (or carrying for white ear) will produce more white ears. A mismark would have nothing to contribute to the genetic soup but the mismark genes; depending upon whether it was bred to another mismark, which will only be able to contribute mismark genes, then all one could get would be mismarks. If bred to a correctly marked dog carrying for mismarks, then one would have a one in 4 chance for a puppy to be a mismark. IF the correctly marked dog wasn't carrying for mismark, then there would be no chances of mismarks.

Markings might not show up in the next generation, but those markings will show up on down the line at some point in time and pretty identical to their great grandparent's.

Debbie

Debbie,
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this explanation. I doubt that there is a gene for white ear, but, what is probably going on is random expression of a pigment gene. If you can send me a refereed paper on this I will admit my mistake, but, color (pigment) should and will turn on randomly. A line would have to be pretty tightly bred, almost clonal in makeup to have identical expression of color placement. There are just too many factors involved to say that a mismark whether white eye patch, off color ear, etc to be genetic.

Also, don't take my disagreement as not respecting your opinion. I very much value your input and our discussions! This is how I am becoming a more informed and responsible pet owner.

Oh, and who came up with the term Whitelies and Bluies? I read the Pem standard today and thought I had misread the words.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by jakort1

Debbie,
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this explanation. I doubt that there is a gene for white ear, but, what is probably going on is random expression of a pigment gene.

John you have a lot to learn about the inheritance of markings, including white on the ear. White on the ear is inherited as are marking patterns.

If you can send me a refereed paper on this I will admit my mistake, but, color (pigment) should and will turn on randomly.

Do you have any of the old CWCCA Handbooks? Preferably those back in the 80's? Better yet, are you on ShowCardi-L?

A line would have to be pretty tightly bred, almost clonal in makeup to have identical expression of color placement.

And a dog with that kind of background is going to imprint those traits on its offspring. I can look at certain heads in Cardigans and tell you that a particular dog is behind them.

There are just too many factors involved to say that a mismark whether white eye patch, off color ear, etc to be genetic.

A dog with an over expression of the Irish Spotting Pattern is going to have that as its genetic makeup, and that is what it will be able to pass on to its offspring.

[quote]Also, don't take my disagreement as not respecting your opinion. I very much value your input and our discussions! This is how I am becoming a more informed and responsible pet owner.{/QUOTE]

Thank you for the compliment and I take your disagreement as you just being a tadpole on your way to becoming a frog.

Oh, and who came up with the term Whitelies and Bluies? I read the Pem standard today and thought I had misread the words.

I'm not sure to whom to give the credit for those terms. Whitelies, well it is pretty self explanatory. Bluies, I can tell you why they would be called that - because of the bluish cast the dilute pigmentation causes on the coat, eye and nose leather.

Debbie