Houston, we have a problem

[brynlea]

Hi all. I am a veteran Corgi breeder/trainer/rescue person and a friend of mine alerted me to the fact that there is some BAd training/behavior information being traded here.......having over 30 years experience in the breed I can tell you, if a Corgi (I don't care what age) is growling at you, it is NOT going to "go away", nor is it solved by "using only words". They do indeed outgrow it - by turning a growl into a bite!! This is one of the top reasons we get beloved Corgis into rescue: people do not realize going in just how manipulative and bossy a Corgi can be. If your Corgi is growling and/or if you do not have the upper hand, do not understand exactly how to be a strong, yet gentle Alpha figure (which ALL Corgis MUST have) - then I beg you to ask for help from a professional who has experience in training and handling this breed!! Anyone who is unsure where to look for such help, please feel free to let us know so we can point you in the right direction, NOW.

[Fluffypants]

WOW! Not a very nice way to introduce yourself to the group, but welcome anyway.

Have you searched the archives to read this "bad advice" for yourself? Perhaps we are not all as hopeless as you believe.

[brynlea]

Indeed I did. I thought your advice was very good, BTW. However, I am not sure it is clear to the poster who's advice they should take. Hopefully they will recognize that yours makes the most sense.

I did introduce myself way back when this board was founded last year (that same day, I do believe) but not sure if any of those first "test" posts appear in the archives. I am rather "busy" on another board but popped back in due to the concern of a few members, so sorry to appear to be abrupt - was not my intention.

Brenda Stiles
Brynlea Corgis since 1979

[Jackie]

Jessica, you obviously have NO idea who Brynlea is!? Do a little search in Google. You wonder why you have no one here that has experience, or are long time breeders!? Well, I did notice that you now have Debbie, who most definitely is giving you good info.

The owners of this site came to Corgis.com advertising this site, and many of the folks from that site came over here. A few of us, who do have a clue, also would have helped here, but there was a VERY rocky start here. One long time breeder was challenged more than once, and even her info and her dept where she works in the Gov. were posted for all to see. She's has not come back, and Brynlea, myself and others swore we would never post here.

Brynlea did NOT post that cause she wanted to introduce herself here, or join in any of these discussions!! That thread was FULL of bad info, and I asked her to come look at it. If I can post her "How to teach a Corgi to bite" here, I will. Like she said, all of the people here with growling Corgis need to seek help now!!

[corgimom]

Brenda and Jackie

I know you....I have read some of your posts on Corgi.com;We are very lucky to have Deb(GlenCorgi) here; she educates us on many things.

Jessica is a first time Corgi owner; so let's be a bit nicer, please

[Jackie]

This post is from another forum, but I do believe ALL here should take the time to read it!

Re: Dominance

From: stilesbrynlea
Category: Puppies
Date: 5/29/2003
Time: 10:57:47 AM

Comments
This is going to be a long reply.......but you need to take some immediate action. I would say the number one reason Corgis end up in rescue is because of the very same behavior you describe. Trust me, unless you take a harder stance on this, the problem will get worse. Below is an article I wrote to give to my puppy buyers. It has become quite valuable for MANY Corgi owners. If you have questions, please feel free to contact me.
How to Teach Your Corgi To Bite
What?!! A Corgi that bites?? They don’t do THAT, do they??
In answer to that question, yes, ANY dog can bite under the right (or let’s say WRONG) circumstances. Corgis are very intelligent and somewhat manipulative little dogs. From the minute you take your little ball of fur home with you, he will test his limits on a regular basis. In other words, if you allow him to jump up on your lap or the couch today, he will do so tomorrow, and may very well try to climb onto the table from there! All limits need to be in place the minute he walks into your door – so think about this and plan for it. For example, if the dog is not to be allowed in the dining room, then there should be a plan of attack for training the puppy this, AND, he should NEVER be allowed in – not even once.
Now that it seems I am totally off the track here, we will get to the root of this article. In the same vein as what I have just outlined, here is how you can teach your Corgi to bite you and all of your family members. That’s right – if your Corgi bites, more than likely it is because you TAUGHT him to!
Step 1: You decide that Rover will eat his dinner in the kitchen while the family prepares their own dinner. You put his bowl down and he dives in. Little Sammy comes in and decides that Rover’s bowl should be over near the door, so he starts to pick it up and move it. Rover, not liking what appears to be competition for his food, begins a low growl with quivering lip. Sammy drops the bowl. You let it slide.
Step 2: Rover is playing with his toy on the living room floor. Sister Sue thinks it would be neat if she throws the toy to see if Rover will bring it back. She reaches for the toy. Now, Rover remembers the bowl experience. He learned IN ONE TRY that if he doesn’t want a human (or another dog) to touch “his� stuff, all he has to do is let out a little growl!! So, that’s what he does. Sister Sue, not being well versed in the natural instincts of a dog, thinks it’s pretty cute – he’s talking and playing!! You let it slide.
Step 3: It’s BBQ time, and the grill is smoking. Rover hasn’t been fed yet, and he’s hungry. He sits quietly beside the grill, drinking in the heavenly scent of pork chops. Dad starts to plate them up, and one hits the deck. Rover dives for it, you reach to take it away - now, what do you think is going to happen next??? It will be quick, it will be ugly, and, how are you going to react??
IF at this point, you just tell Rover what a bad boy he is, put him in his crate and go to tend your wound, then……….CONGRATULATIONS, you have successfully trained your Corgi to bite. He will use this new skill for every incident in the future when he feels he needs to be in control of the situation.
Obviously, had the early signals been acted upon, this whole scenario would be highly unlikely. But even though they were ignored up until this point, the situation is still quite salvageable – if you choose to repair it. This is why I STRONGLY urge you to start a basic obedience or puppy kindergarten class with your puppy as soon as you possibly can after you bring him home!! And don't think, if you missed out on doing this, that an adult dog can't be trained! You will need to achieve a level of control and a clear understanding of what the rules are, and WHO makes them, before any corrective measures can be effective.
In a nutshell, in this instance, there is only one rule to remember:
GROWLING AND/OR SNAPPING IS NOT EXCUSABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. PERIOD.
The punishment for these crimes must be immediate and must be severe. There is no way to “reason� with a dog about this! If you ignore the signs, you will make the problem harder to fix. Once a dog bites, it is VERY, VERY difficult, if not impossible, to trust him again.
HOW TO PUNISH
If you hear your Corgi growl, FOR ANY REASON, you need to act immediately. (And by YOU, I am meaning the dominant members of the family – don’t have the kids do this) Go to the dog, and grasp the dog by both sides of his neck. Look directly into his eyes. Pick him up off his front feet. Using the most menacingly firm voice you can muster, say “NO – BAD DOG – NO GROWLING – NO!!� The more times you say NO, the better, as that is really the only word that the dog is going to understand anyway! Then let him go, and make no fuss over it. Make sure that the entire family knows what is going on, and what types of circumstances may encourage Rover to behave this way. Should you avoid these??? NO. Just make sure you are present and ready for action, should Rover try the test again! Even if it takes numerous tries before he gets the message, you have still stuck to your guns and not let him get away with it…………which is just what he is hoping you will do!
If your dog has already nipped or bitten, then a different approach will be in order - and for this, you are going to need help from a professional. Don't ignore it - IT WILL GET WORSE.

[brynlea]

Linda, I am glad to hear Debbie is helping here. On that note, I will leave the ship to her, unless she calls for help. I just hate to see people get bad info - bad info leads to bad decisions and Lord knows I have seen way too many rescue Corgis due to bad decisions. Good luck and keep on learnin'

Brenda

[Jackie]

Yes, Linda. . .you are VERY lucky to have Deb! Brenda and I do not have time to also read and respond on this forum. Deb is clearly giving you excellent advice, and for that. . .I thank her!!

I got an e-mail yesterday saying my info here would be deleted since I don't post. . .I honestly, had forgotten all about this forum. I just popped in, for kicks, and that was the first thread I noticed. Even tho I swore I would never post here, that thread bothered me A LOT. I decided this morning that someone had to step up and try to help that gal. While some very good advice was given to her, most was not. I hope she reads Brenda's article.

[corgimom]

Brenda,

I remember my Cody at about 4 months not too happy when we attempted to take a yummy bone away from him - that we put a stop to immediately.

There was no second time for him !- After that, I made sure everyone in our family hand fed him at times and held onto one end of his yummy bone while sitting along side him on the floor while he chewed on the other end.

He is very respectable of anyone taking toys or food away from him now - friends or family There is no growling, period!

[corgimom]

Why would your post be deleted...it shows that you joined in October. I didn't know there was a minimum posting requirement

[tandemgal]

Brynlea and Jackie,

welcome to our go corgi. thanks for taking such an interest - no one wants to have a corgi gone wild!

I think the thread you are refering to was concerning a new puppy and very young new owner... there may have been some advice that wasnt as good as others but when I reread the thread bubblegumbarbie had taken the best advice and was sucessfully using it and reported good progress and had stopped "spanking" her puppy.

You are right Jackie, we don't know who we are talking too. Most of us here have only been at Go Corgi since this spring. Most of us are pet owners and are not breeders or on the circuits. Please introduce yourselves and feel free to join in our discussions. You will find that we are reasonable good natured people who enjoy each others company and the company of our pets.

I'm sure our love of corgis should give us all common ground.

[Fluffypants]

Originally Posted by brynlea

I thought your advice was very good, BTW. However, I am not sure it is clear to the poster who's advice they should take. Hopefully they will recognize that yours makes the most sense.

Thank you Brenda.

I was not a member in October, so I did not know that you had previously introduced yourself. I was just a little taken aback by the thought that someone would just pop on here for the first time & start critcizing without so much as a "Hi", and felt like someone had to stick up for us. I now see that's not what you were doing, so I apologize.

[Fluffypants]

Originally Posted by Jackie

Jessica, you obviously have NO idea who Brynlea is!? Do a little search in Google. You wonder why you have no one here that has experience, or are long time breeders!? Well, I did notice that you now have Debbie, who most definitely is giving you good info.

The owners of this site came to Corgis.com advertising this site, and many of the folks from that site came over here. A few of us, who do have a clue, also would have helped here, but there was a VERY rocky start here. One long time breeder was challenged more than once, and even her info and her dept where she works in the Gov. were posted for all to see. She's has not come back, and Brynlea, myself and others swore we would never post here.

Brynlea did NOT post that cause she wanted to introduce herself here, or join in any of these discussions!! That thread was FULL of bad info, and I asked her to come look at it. If I can post her "How to teach a Corgi to bite" here, I will. Like she said, all of the people here with growling Corgis need to seek help now!!

Actually, I do know Brylea corgis, but thanks so much for the compliment.
As I posted above, it was the tone I was objecting to, not her background.

Also, I don't believe my post was quite as nasty as yours, so you win the contest Jackie. Properly chastised, I will shut my clueless mouth.

Although . . . I must have SOME clue, because you can read Brenda's post, saying that I actually gave good advice (thanks again for that Brenda).

[milles2]

Yikes! What board am I on?

[darci]

Please do feel free to offer any advice you may have. I myself have only been a corgi owner for 2 1/2 yrs with 2 corgi's now, and I find myself learning something new everyday. I am far from an expert.

We all try to respect each other, and offer what help we can it may not always be spot on so hopefully and I realize your busy but you can continue to visit this board and offer your opinions.

I speak for myself only but I try to take what little experience I have and talk with other people who know more than I, listen to opinions consult my vet when needed and try to do whats best for my furry butts.


Glad to have some additional corgi expertise.