Corgis easy to raise

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

No Peggy you are wrong. There is not one kennel club that holds international shows - I don't know where you got this idea from.

There is only one kennel club in the US that holds international shows. Only one that gives international titles. The rest only give American titles. An AKC Champion is an Amerian Champion not an international champion.

If you'd read what I write instead of trying to find something to critize you'd see that I didn't mean that there was only one international club that holds shows. I was talking about the US at the time.

As I understand it, the USA was one of those instrumental in the forming of the IFCS. I doubt if the IFCS is directly involved in conformation shows at any level. Obviously, Americans pay their annual dues to the IFCS. American and Russian dogs were dominant forces at the 2006 world (IFCS) agility champs in the Netherlands.

No, Americans do not pay dues to the IFCS. The USDAA might but that is an orginization, a kennel club (that does put on agility trials) not Americans in general. Americans in general or the US in general does not pay any dues to any international canine orginization.

You'll find similarities with sled dog racing of which the USA plays a big part and again there are two world champs held regularly under the auspicies of the FCI and from memory, the IFCS.

I don't know anything about sled racing, but I sure can find out.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Peggy - The USA pays affliiation fees to hundreds and hundreds of international organisations including dog related international organisations. You are either an isolationist or you think that 'the buck stops' at the borders of the good ol USA.

It doesn't matter which USA organisation pays annual fees/dues to an international organisation - it basically affiliates the USA to that organisation. It's just common sense I would have thought.

[MyPemCharlie]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Peggy - The USA pays affliiation fees to hundreds and hundreds of international organisations including dog related international organisations. You are either an isolationist or you think that 'the buck stops' at the borders of the good ol USA.

It doesn't matter which USA organisation pays annual fees/dues to an international organisation - it basically affiliates the USA to that organisation. It's just common sense I would have thought.

This is merely semantics and probably not worth arguing over. But the way you have worded this would make a lot of Americans disagree with you.

When you use USA as a noun, as in "The USA pays fees...", most of us interpret USA as "the country", i.e. the USA government pays. Government of course gets the money from every taxpayer. The government does not give our tax money to dog organizations. Although we could argue that that would be a better use of funds than many of the government programs that the USA does in fact fund. LOL

When you use USA as an adjective, as in "The USA Dog Agility Group pays fees to an International Agility Group.", you get pretty much no argument. That then, does affiliate the USA Dog Agility Group to the USA (not the other way around).

It is common sense, but the way you have worded your comments, most Americans would argue with you. Just the way we interpret the usage of "USA".

[Louwants]

Peggy and Michael.....got a question....is there anything you two don't argue about LOL!!!!

You two sure know how to get a good discussion going.

[Michael Romanos]

I would think it is common sense not to assume that a Government would pay affiliaton fees on behalf of a nationally-recognised dog organisation. Can't think of any country that would directly - even Mainland China.
So when one says that NZ or Germany or Sweden or Argentina pays fees to the FCI it doesn't mean that our/their Government does.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

This is merely semantics and probably not worth arguing over. But the way you have worded this would make a lot of Americans disagree with you.

When you use USA as a noun, as in "The USA pays fees...", most of us interpret USA as "the country", i.e. the USA government pays. Government of course gets the money from every taxpayer. The government does not give our tax money to dog organizations. Although we could argue that that would be a better use of funds than many of the government programs that the USA does in fact fund. LOL

When you use USA as an adjective, as in "The USA Dog Agility Group pays fees to an International Agility Group.", you get pretty much no argument. That then, does affiliate the USA Dog Agility Group to the USA (not the other way around).

It is common sense, but the way you have worded your comments, most Americans would argue with you. Just the way we interpret the usage of "USA".

Chris is right, which is what I keep saying, the USA as a whole does not pay these fees. I doubt the US goverment pays fees to any international canine orginization.

Again, I'd really like to see some sources on this. Some kind of proof other than your word.

The US government is different than what you have in NZ or any other place in the world. "We the people" have a say in where our government spends our money. And what laws they pass.

Now, there may be a few (and I do mean few) kennel clubs or associations who do pay to be a part of the international canine orginizations but it is NOT the AKC nor is it the US as a country.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Louwants

Peggy and Michael.....got a question....is there anything you two don't argue about LOL!!!!

You two sure know how to get a good discussion going.

Discussion IMO, are good. Arguments, I wish it weren't that way. When I'm wrong I will admit it. Those that know me from other forums/lists know that.

I don't like being told I'm wrong when it's my opinion (and my opinion is just as good as anyone else's) or when I know more about something than someone else. In this case the USA. I would never think to tell someone what the NZ government pays or what orginaizations they belong to since I know virtually nothing about the NZ government.

And I did request we drop this as it's getting us no where, yet Michael insists on trying to tell me that I'm wrong. And without the web sites or any proof that I've requested.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

I would think it is common sense not to assume that a Government would pay affiliaton fees on behalf of a nationally-recognised dog organisation. Can't think of any country that would directly - even Mainland China.
So when one says that NZ or Germany or Sweden or Argentina pays fees to the FCI it doesn't mean that our/their Government does.

I don't think it's common sense to think that. The AKC is a nationally recoginized dog orginization but the government has nothing to do with the AKC and the AKC is a stand alone orginization and does not pay fees to any other orginization.

The AKC and the UKC are the two top canine orginizations in the US and they are both stand alone orginizations. They are not affiliated with nor pay fees to others.

And when you say the US pays fees, like Chris says we, here in the US see that as meaning the country as a whole or our government. We don't see it as a single dog registery, association or whatever pays fees for *that* orginization.

IMO, it's not the same thing at all.

Peggy

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Peggy - The USA pays affliiation fees to hundreds and hundreds of international organisations including dog related international organisations. You are either an isolationist or you think that 'the buck stops' at the borders of the good ol USA.

Do you have to work at being this obtuse or does it just come naturally? The only germane organization(s) applicable here are dog organizations. Unlike NZ and many other countries there is NOT one SINGLE governing organization applying to dog sports. So what one independent organization chooses to join or be involved in on an international basis is that organization acting independently, it is not reflective of the United States as a whole. It has nothing to do with being an isolationist or bucks stopping at any border, that is just the reality of the way things work in the US, a concept if ethnocentric blinders were removed, might become a little clearer and be able to be grasped.

It doesn't matter which USA organisation pays annual fees/dues to an international organisation - it basically affiliates the USA to that organisation. It's just common sense I would have thought.

An individual organization paying dues to an international organization does in no way affiliate the entire US to that organization. Likewise, some of the international entries at some of the US events does not affiliate them with the US. Let me draw a picture here and hopefully a light bulb will come on.

AKC just held its Eukanuba Classic. The Eukanuba is by invitation only, that means the only way to show there is to have qualified and received an invitation to go. (BTW, I will be getting at least one invitation for next year's and should be getting two for the Bred-by Exhibitor competition. Peggy received one this year. <VBG>) The Eukanuba is not conformation only, there are obedience and agility competition as well. AKC also sends invitations to top dogs in other countries. The dogs are not required to have AKC registrations, their invitations come on the merits of their performance and rankings in their home country. The only caveat is that the registery under which they compete is one acknowledged by AKC. That these dogs are eligible to compete at the Eukanuba or that they do exhibit there does NOT in anyway tie, link, affiliate or associate the country of origin or even the kennel club registery under which the dog has been shown, to the AKC and it certainly does not to link it to the US. The only fees involved are the entry fees paid by the owner/handler/agent for the dog to show.

Just because an organization has US in its title does not necessarily mean that it is a nationally recognized organization for one, nor does it mean that it indeed does represent the interest of whatever on a national level. That IS the reality in the United States.

Debbie

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

You are either an isolationist or you think that 'the buck stops' at the borders of the good ol USA.

By the way, FYI, I belive that the USA should take care of America first and I do not belive in a one world government.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Read back through some notes of mine and can clarify the sport of sled dogs. The USA is fully affiliated to and part of the IFSS - that is the International Federation of Sled Dog Sports - which holds world champs every two years. Where sled dogs have it over agility is that there is only a single world organisation for the sled dogs whereas agility is conflicted with two. The USA has hosted world sled dog champs under the umbrella of the IFSS and the sport has been staged at two Olympics (wayback). NZ has a current world ranked competitor. In turn, the IFSS is probably affiliated to/associated with either the FCI or the IFCS.

The commonly used english language version of the FCI is what I called it (World Canine Federation).