Corgis well placed

[Michael Romanos]

The American Kennel Assoc produced its 2007 breed registrations and Pembroke Corgis comes in at a healthy number 22 out of a total of 157 breeds.

Cardis rate 78th - one behind Dalmatians and ahead of Staffies.

The top 10 for 2007 are Labs, Yorkies, GSD, Golden R, Beagles, Boxers, Dachshunds (all types lumped into one), Poodles (all types lumped into one), Shiz Tsu, Bulldogs (British?).

[glencorgi]

While it is very hard for Micheal to understand the whys, I don't consider placing 22 "healthy" for Pembrokes. I am relieved they held steady and didn't climb this year.

One reason I say don't consider the ranking "healthy" - 2008 isn't three weeks old and Corgi Aid has helped fund veterinary care for eight rescue Pembrokes already. IF the corgis had been "well placed" to begin with, they wouldn't be in their current status today.

For the article Michael is referencing:

AKC - 2007 Most Popular Dogs in the United States

The American Kennel Club® announced that the Bulldog, a popular
sports team mascot and one of the most recognizable and iconic purebred
dogs, has muscled its way into the 10th spot on the organization's
annual list of the most popular breeds in America according to 2007
AKC® registration figures. The Labrador Retriever retains the title
of "Top Dog"— a position it has now held for 17 consecutive
years. Complete Story

http://www.petvr.com/index.php/pages...dogbreeds.html

[Michael Romanos]

Promoting Corgis is one of the main reasons why we are here on this site. And it is part of our Mission Statement. At 22, it is indeed a promotion of the popularlty of Corgis in the USA. If one placed together both Cardis and Pems, Corgis would rise to a higher placing on the list - some of the breeds listed are expressed in this kind of way.
The way dogs are treated in the USA, is another kind of subject and the way Debbie (glencorgi) sees it is that it means that more Corgis are mistreated and this is exactly the same as Labs who are the world's most popular dog and also the world's most prosecuted dog breed by authorities for biting humans. It doesn't mean that Labs are a dangerous dog it just means that it is a numbers game (the more Labs, the more likely an odd Lab or two or three is going to take exception to a human and the more likely they will be managed by a bad owner, being part of red blooded medium-large size dog breeds).

[glencorgi]

Promoting corgis may be one of the main reasons you are here, however, you know I've never joined in on your "Pembroke on every porch, Cardigan on every couch" campaign. Promoting, pimping and prostituting the breeds, just not going to happen from me. I am here to enjoy the company of other corgi owners, to promote education, responsible ownership, responsible breeding, answer questions when I can and share experiences.

The way dogs are treated in the USA, is another kind of subject and the way Debbie (glencorgi) sees it is that it means that more Corgis are mistreated

However Michael would like to spin my words, he is missing the point, popularity rankings are indeed part and parcel of breed welfare and individual dog welfare. It is reading something that isn't there by saying I equate popularity with mistreatment; I do know it leads to more owner retention and responsibility problems, increased commercial and random breeding, but that isn't implying the corgis were "mistreated" necessarily. In fact a case could be made that you were guilty of such "mistreatment" in your choice of inaction with Connie, failing both her owner and her.

and this is exactly the same as Labs who are the world's most popular dog and also the world's most prosecuted dog breed by authorities for biting humans. It doesn't mean that Labs are a dangerous dog it just means that it is a numbers game (the more Labs, the more likely an odd Lab or two or three is going to take exception to a human and the more likely they will be managed by a bad owner, being part of red blooded medium-large size dog breeds).

Very true, except these dogs aren't going to be called Labs, they are going to be labeled bully breeds. You aren't going to find a headline reading: "Lab bites owner." And you've just made the case for why breed specific legislation is wrong.

I know this list is just a reporting of number of registrations. I am relieved neither corgi breed climbed upwards as has been the trend over the past several years. Honestly, I hope they have peaked; that would be a much better situation for the overall health and welfare of both corgi breeds.

Debbie

[jakort1]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

I am relieved neither corgi breed climbed upwards as has been the trend over the past several years. Honestly, I hope they have peaked; that would be a much better situation for the overall health and welfare of both corgi breeds.

I agree. The higher the numbers the more we would see increases in inherited diseases/issues. When a breed increases in popularity it seems that ailments that careful breeders have nearly eradicated come back into the spotlight. If everyone wanted a corgi (pem or cardi) do we really think that PRA (for example) levels would remain static?

Part of the reason that I chose a Cardigan was because they were a rather uncommon breed. As Debbie states, I hope the numbers have peaked.

John

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by glencorgi

Promoting corgis may be one of the main reasons you are here, however, you know I've never joined in on your "Pembroke on every porch, Cardigan on every couch" campaign. Promoting, pimping and prostituting the breeds, just not going to happen from me. I am here to enjoy the company of other corgi owners, to promote education, responsible ownership, responsible breeding, answer questions when I can and share experiences.

I totally agree with Debbie. The above statement is my reasoning too.

I too see a high ranking as a problem for our breeds. When a breed becomes popular you find them in pet stores, puppy mills and being bred casually more often. This is not good for any breed. And then following this you find more in rescue.

When a breed becomes popular you find more people buying on impulse, not understanding the breed, not being ready to own the dog they've bought and often then turning the dog over to rescue.

Better for any breed to be more "rare" and not popular. Neither corgi breed needs to be promoted. Both are doing quite fine and Pembrokes IMO, could do with less promotion.

Peggy

[Louwants]

In a way, I have the same feeling about corgis that Michael has......I think it's the best breed around. That's why after almost 25 years after my last corgi, when I was able to get another dog....I never even thought about another breed. BUT, I also know for a fact, it's not the breed for everyone.

Want to see a breed became popular? Just let there be a Disney movie about them! Disney always makes them appear the perfect dog...101 Dalmations is a good example. After that movie, puppy mills were pushing that breed out and people were running to buy them. Not even considering if whether or not they were the perfect family for the dog.

After "The Queen" came out, I was worried that the pems would really get pushed up in the ranks, which, it looks like them didn't. Goodness, I have enough trouble with my corgi at times, (mainly by being spoiled and my husband not listening to what I tell him....LOL); I can't imagine what it would be like if they get popular and people with no idea how stubborn and intelligent they are. Although I think Cowboy Bebop was what made them so popular in the Asian countries. I read enough in CorgiAid of the poor ones that are ignored, mistreated and abandoned.

I agree, let's keep our corgi's a little secret and only tell people who are worthy of them.

[MyPemCharlie]

Actually it is somewhat alarming, the rise in Corgi popularity over the last 10 years. I'm assuming that the Cowboy Bebop movie released in 2001 accounted for the huge jump in Pembroke popularity in 2002. Pembrokes have moved up 15 spots, and Cardigans have moved up 10 spots.

I was searching for a 20-40 lb, somewhat active dog with a lively personality, easy care coat and relatively few genetic health issues. I'm thrilled to death that I chose a Corgi. Charlie is exactly the dog for me. Like many of you however, I don't want to see the breed standards and health to become dilluted by breeding popularity.

From AKC website:

BREED 2007 2006 2002 1997
Pembroke Welsh Corgis 22 22 25 37
Cardigan Welsh Corgis 78 79 82 88

Source: AKC Dog Registration Statistics

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

Actually it is somewhat alarming, the rise in Corgi popularity over the last 10 years. I'm assuming that the Cowboy Bebop movie released in 2001 accounted for the huge jump in Pembroke popularity in 2002.

Just think of the number of people who join with corgis named Ein. How many on dogster are named Ein? There have been a few other high profile corgi sightings which have contributed. The movie The Queen, perhaps another recent factor. But who is going to figure the corgis in that movie were competitive obedience trained?

Pembrokes have moved up 15 spots, and Cardigans have moved up 10 spots.

And that rise is setting the pace for their rate of disposability as well. A current thread on the corgi rescue list asked if everyone was seeing the increases a rescuer in Louisiana was - the majority of them purebred.

From CO: We have been inundated with young PB Corgis (under 2) who are poorly socialized and poorly bred. They are wild, hyper and hard-to-train.

From Potomac Rescue (VA, MD, PA) Potomac's rescue is also being flooded with requests to come into the
program. Sue said she had 3 people giving up 2 corgis each, plus
several with just one needing placement, in addition to at least one
that I picked up from a shelter and 1 who needs considerable medical
treatment and was given up by owner who could not affort to pay for
it.

Now for some very telling numbers as they relate to the years' registration numbers Chris quoted:
Lakeshore (they cover the states around the Great Lakes region of the US) has also had a lot of dogs the last two years. We ended 2006 with 75 and 2007 with 79. In 2005 we ended the year at 28.

From AKC website:

BREED 2007 2006 2002 1997
Pembroke Welsh Corgis 22 22 25 37
Cardigan Welsh Corgis 78 79 82 88

Source: AKC Dog Registration Statistics

Coincidence? I think not. That's the other side of reality.

Debbie

[jakort1]

Am I thinking about this correctly...as the population of dog owners increases and a breed remained at the same place of popularity (let's say #50) that would imply that there are more of that breed present? So, wouldn't you want your favorite breed to actually decrease in popularity (go from #50 to #49)?

One of the things that I've noticed about reputable breeders is that they don't seem to increase the number of litters their kennels produce. Guess where the increase would come from? Look at the number of rescued dogs showing up.

John

[MyPemCharlie]

Originally Posted by jakort1

Am I thinking about this correctly...as the population of dog owners increases and a breed remained at the same place of popularity (let's say #50) that would imply that there are more of that breed present?
John

Probably, but not necessarily. Labs have been #1 for years. If the number of Labs tripled, every other breed could stay the same or decrease in number of dogs, but the overall dog population would increase. The rankings would also be the same in this case.

Originally Posted by jakort1

So, wouldn't you want your favorite breed to actually decrease in popularity (go from #50 to #49)?


John

I think most of us would like to see our Corgis stay the same or decrease in popularity. (I think you meant #49 to #50 in your example. (Higher the number = less popular.))

Interesting thinking though. I would be curious to see the actual number of Corgis registered over the 10 year period. As the example about Labs above indicates, the number of dogs could conceivably have increased, stayed the same, or decreased. Most likely we've seen a large increase in numbers though, to jump 10 to 15 spots in the rankings is a huge move up the rankings. I couldn't find the raw number data on the AKC site.

The other thing is that as the popularity grows, more backyard breeders start producing unregisterable puppies (or puppies which the owner never bothers to register). So the "unrecorded" population could be growing much faster than the number of AKC registrations of the breed.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by jakort1

Am I thinking about this correctly...as the population of dog owners increases and a breed remained at the same place of popularity (let's say #50) that would imply that there are more of that breed present?

No. Well to step back a minute, the rankings being talked about here are based on AKC registration numbers - the number of dogs of an individual breed registered with AKC for that year. They aren't including UKC nor any of the other alphabet soup of registries found in the US. So if the numbers for #50 for 2007 were say 1,245 and in 2006 the numbers for that breed were 1,238 or even 1,252 - that probably isn't going to be enough of a fluctuation to move the ranking.

So, wouldn't you want your favorite breed to actually decrease in popularity (go from #50 to #49)?

Going from #50 to #49 would be an increase in registrations/popularity. And yes (somebody please go get the smelling salts for Michael ) I'd love to see Cardigans move back to like #115 or #120 and Pembrokes move down to the high 90's.

One of the things that I've noticed about reputable breeders is that they don't seem to increase the number of litters their kennels produce.

There is some fluctuation among reputable breeders. One year someone might not have a litter, the next they might have three litters, just depends on where they are in a breeding program, what they might need to do at that point, age of their girls - who might need to be bred for a last litter ... Now the Breeder who bred two litters the year before, might not breed a litter this year, that's how the numbers stay about the same.

[/QUOTE=] Guess where the increase would come from? Look at the number of rescued dogs showing up.[/quote]

Yep, you've the other consequence of being "well placed."

Debbie

[Michael Romanos]

Like this post said at the beginning: Corgis are (very) well placed in the USA via AKA 2007 registrations and would be higher still if the Cardis were included with the Pems. AKA have lumped quite a few breeds together including Toy, Miniature and Standard Poodles; all the various forms of Dachshunds etc.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Like this post said at the beginning: Corgis are (very) well placed in the USA via AKA 2007 registrations and would be higher still if the Cardis were included with the Pems. AKA have lumped quite a few breeds together including Toy, Miniature and Standard Poodles; all the various forms of Dachshunds etc.

Two corrections:

These are American Kennel Club (AKC) rankings, not American Kennel Association (AKA). There probably is an American Kennel Association, but it would fall into what we in the US refer to as the alphabet soup of other registries which will register anything including mixed breeds that one might rescue from a pound/shelter.

Secondly, Toy, Miniature and Standard Poodles, the Doxies, Smooth and Rough Collies are not different breeds; they are varieties of the same breed. The only difference in the standard for each of the varieties is size or coat length or texture and they can be interbred. One can have both smooth and rough coated Collies in the same litter for example. Corgis are two distinct and different breeds; their standards are different. One cannot breed a Pembroke to a Cardigan and register it as a purebred corgi of either breed.

Without having the actual numbers of the individual breeds' registrations, it is not really a sound assumption to say "corgis" would have moved up in the rankings. As I no longer get the Gazette and don't have the numbers in front of me, I can't say. I can illustrate why it is a faulty assumption with litter registration numbers from the AKC's website.

2006 litter registration numbers:

In the 20th position were Rotties with 5,815 litters registered.
in the 21st position were Bichon Frise with 4,959 litters registered.
PWC's were in the the 22nd position with 4,813 litters registered.
CWC's were in the 86th position with 269 litters registered.

Adding the Pem and Cardi litter registrations together, that total would make 5,082 "corgi" litters registered, moving the combined breeds' litter registrations into the 21st position. So for Pems it would have been just a one position move up, for Cardigans a huge leap upwards. Without having the numbers for individual registrations in front of us for Dobermans and the two corgi breeds, one cannot accurately say or assume there would have been a jump in position.

Of all the forums and all the lists I am on from the pet owners to the breed fanciers, Michael is the only one I have encountered who sees any cheer to the ranking. This in spite of all that has been done by so many to try to enlighten him about the consequences of high rankings.

Debbie

[KJohnson]

I think it's cool.
=D
we love to see other Corgi's when we go to the park,
Westin gets all excited, which means WE get excited!
Corgis are wonderful, and if other people can appreciate them as much as we all do, it's good that they are being recognized.
((I understand that more puppies = more puppies being abused, I just want to throw that out there so I don't "get in trouble" for thinking the way that I do!))