Death by dog

[Michael Romanos]

A woman, whose youngest son is fifteen, was walking past her nephew's property in New Zealand a few days ago and was fatally attacked by her nephew's two dogs. Not many points for guessing the breed of the dogs - an American Pit Bull Terrier and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier-cross.
It is a continuing lethal weapon - a bit like loaded guns - a bad owner combined with strong fighting-type dogs.
What to do? The dogs were unregistered but what good will registration of dogs do - it won't make them better and generally it would make for better owners. Pit Bulls are one of four breeds of dogs that cannot now be imported into the country, but there is already a good supply of them here though not many left are pure bred.
I have never been fond of any breed of dog with 'bull' in their name apart from English Bull Dogs and I guess French Bull Dogs are perfectly ok.

[Jane Austen]

It may be a "knee jerk" reaction but I definitely agree with Michael on this issue. Some of you experts disagreed in the past about dogs having bad inherited tendencies. That it was the way they are raised and not the breed. That could be true, I would not take the chance. There have been too many "sweet dogs" that have killed and maimed people of all ages. A great majority of these were "pit bull" types.

[gemjunkie]

I believe, like with any other type of dog, you have to research your breed AND breeder. If you are going to delve into the pit bull/amstaf type dogs, go to a reputable breeder that has taken pains to breed out the bad and better or protect the breed.

Can anyone show one example of a show bully that has attacked/killed/maimed anyone? How many of these dogs came from reputable breeders? How many of these owners have experience with bully breeds?

They are, unfortunately, the 'in' dog to have in many circles and people don't research the breed, they get the cutest puppy, least expensive or first they find. Mixes with any guard/fighting dog are always a risk as the worst traits of both breeds may manifest.

Dogs that should not be allowed to reproduce are constantly being bred to satisfy greed. It angers me that so many people perpetuate these breeds for fighting and try to breed the 'fight' in. Just a few days ago here, a dog fighting ring was broken up and 16 dogs had to be put down because they were conditioned to fight. It was sickening. None were fixed. It makes me wonder where their puppies will turn up next.

[PaulaK]

This always makes me so sad.
30 years ago Maggie's owners wanted to get "RID" of her-they couldn't control her and she was raiding their duck eggs. She came to us underweight, ears infected, no training, not quite a year old and pregnant. We took care of the health issues, gave her attention, and she trained herself. She turned out to be one of the best dogs we have ever had - loving, loyal and patient. She loved other dogs and kids and always had that great big grin on. She was so careful around my baby/toddler niece and nephews. They took naps using her as a pillow, played ball and shared their food - they also learned how to love and respect all dogs from her. If she barked we knew something was up since there was always a reason. She was with us for 13 years and is one that's waiting patiently at the bridge.
Yes - Maggie was a "pit".
Would I own a pit bull now? No - because of insurance liability laws and unsound breeding practices. and that makes me sad too.
Paula

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Jane Austen

It may be a "knee jerk" reaction but I definitely agree with Michael on this issue. Some of you experts disagreed in the past about dogs having bad inherited tendencies. That it was the way they are raised and not the breed. That could be true, I would not take the chance. There have been too many "sweet dogs" that have killed and maimed people of all ages. A great majority of these were "pit bull" types.

Ok, I do not belive all "bull" or "pit bull" breeds or dogs are dangerous. It does depend on the dog and more so on the owner.

Now, while I do put a lot of blame on the owner, you also have to look at the breeders. These dogs like any breed can have those with bad temperments. And there are people who do breed the "tough" ones intentionally to get more that are tough. Meaning fighters or bad temperments.

However, there are plenty that are nice, stable dogs. If you start banning one breed, where does it end. Today "pit bull" breeds, tomorrow, rottweilers, dobermans, etc.

When I worked for a vet the dogs we had the most problems with were cockers, chows and Shar Peis. The "pit bulls" weren't the ones most likely to snap.

And who defines what is a pit bull or bull breed? Look at this site and see if you can pick out the pit bulls.
Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull

Remember that corgis are on the "dangerous dog" list in Italy. It can happen to ANY breed.

Peggy

[Jane Austen]

I don't know what the answer is, I don't like the thought of things being banned.
If cockers, chows and Shar Peis are the problem dogs, why don't we hear about them killing and maiming children?
Peggy, I have a high reguard for your experience with animals. You have a lot of common sense, as I say it is just my opinion from what I have seen and heard that the "pit bull types" are not to be trusted. It may be badly bred dogs, but still in my gut there is no way I want to have one around.

[Lovemycorgi]

Remember that corgis are on the "dangerous dog" list in Italy. It can happen to ANY breed.


I am very surprised to hear this. Do you happen to know why?

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Jane Austen

I don't know what the answer is, I don't like the thought of things being banned.
If cockers, chows and Shar Peis are the problem dogs, why don't we hear about them killing and maiming children?

Because the headlines wouldn't be as sensational and I intend no sarcasm in that statement at all, just the way the press is. A Pomeranian mauled and killed a 6 week old infant in 2000. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.) Bet you didn't hear about the Golden Retriever which killed an elementary age girl while they were playing in the back yard. Dog got a hold of her scarf (family played tug games with it) and strangled her. Since 1975 fatal attacks have been attributed to 30 breeds of dogs according to dogbitelaw.com.

Approximately 12 people die each year (US) from fatal dog bites and the number of vehicular fatalities?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in514774.shtml

More, http://www.fataldogattacks.com/
Numbers increase a bit here and world wide 52 different breeds have caused fatalities.

http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/mean_dogs.htm

In all my years in dogs and having taught uncountable handling classes with a wide range of breeds, I have only had two unprovoked bites or bite attempts. One was by a breeder friend's Maltese that came up and nipped me on the back of the leg. As I had on jeans, basically all I felt was bump against the back of my leg. The other was at a handling class and was a black & tan coonhound that went after my arm and thankfully I had on long sleeves. This was not during examination, but afterwards. In the context of learning more of his background, then I understood how a movement I made could have triggered the response. In handling class I went over everything from Irish Wolfhounds to Chihuahua's and almost everything in between, never a problem.

Debbie

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Lovemycorgi

Remember that corgis are on the "dangerous dog" list in Italy. It can happen to ANY breed.

I am very surprised to hear this. Do you happen to know why?

Because, corgis do not have the best of reputations either. They are often stereotyped as snappish little beasts. There are threads on this and not the first time it has been mentioned. It is a further example of the AR influence in Europe and the Italian government is .

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

I have to admit that I am afraid of pitbulls also. My neighbor had one and we put up a six foot privacy fence to separate our boys from him. The fence we had up, the pitbull could stick his head through and I worried. I agree that it is alot in how they are raised but if they are poorly bred you don't know what the end result will be as it is with alot of other dogs. I was always afraid of rotties until I owned one. However, there is a rottie running around the neighborhood that I don't trust either.

[Michael Romanos]

It would be considered a big joke in New Zealand or Australia to rank Corgis and English and American Cocker Spaniels as dangerous. There are many of the world's 332 recognrsed breeds who simply cannot be classified as dangerous and you can becha that few people can be seriously maimed or killed by any little dogs for a start, and few people succumb to any of the larger well regarded temperamentally friendly breeds. But there is always going to be exceptions. I guess that the most reported dogs biting of people in Australia and NZ are Labradors. Why? It is not because Labs are dangerous, because the vast majority are the friendly family dog and that is why they are so popular, but it is because of their sheer numbers and with it and the type of dog a Lab is (strong, hunting-type) that they also attract bad owners and bad breeders. I think there have been four deaths in NZ over the last 20 years or so where a dog has fatally attacked a person and all have involved what I would consider to be fighting dogs. Of course in that time many dogs have attacked and killed and maimed other dogs and cats.

Maybe to own a dog , a person has to be given a licence and to get that licence, the potential dog owner has to past tests including written tests and practical tests. The written tests include questions about dog management and the practical test includes a person acually handling a dog. That way, the onus is on the human to prove him/her self - where it should be, and not the dog - and if there are subsequent transgressions then the licence can be revoked. How does that sound. It is also one way of trying to keep dog numbers to a reasonable level and produce better dog care.

[Cheetah]

I'm finding myself extremely put off by the anti-pit bull atmosphere on this forum lately... >-.-;<