Help Stop Pet Stores and Puppy Mills

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by ColColt

Hmmmm....it seems the only ones advocating debarking here are the ones that perhaps have too many dogs already to listen to all day. Maybe we should also cut their feet off as not to have to be bothered with trimming the nails and risk a lawsuit over someone getting scratched. Some folks should just raise turtles.

The Irish Setter I told about was an ONLY dog. The people were told by animal control to either debark the dog or find him a new home. The dog had a GOOD home, they loved him, so they chose to debark him. It was not the easy way out for them it was the way they could keep a dog they loved. IMO, they were responsible owners.

And how many dogs is too many? Some people can take care of 20 dogs and some shouldn't have one. Your too many may be the right number for me. Who gets to decide that?

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Whatever you want to think of it or prefer - docking dog tails and cropping ears of dogs are acts of mutilation. Tails can play an important role in a dog's social and communicative life and act as a balance in certain situations.

Debarked dogs: dogs can produce two dozen different vocal sounds and the mutilation of their vocal chords in their not being able to vocalise at a correct natural pitch and to their full extent, probably causes them distress, social drawbacks, and physchological, communicative and mental disadvantages.

Neutering dogs is mutilation and usually causes behavioral and personality changes and probably causes mental stress.

Somewhere in the mind of a dog is stored upsets, disappointments, anguish and heartaches.

[Dillydoodle]

Michael, If people let their dogs remain intact there would be an explosion of unwanted puppies being euthanized daily.... you have no idea how irresponsible it is not to spay and neuter... Being on these forums has actually illustrated to me how many people are NOT responsible and DO NOT do the right things by their dogs, and advocating these same people to not spay and neuter...you must be crazy.. I know, why dont we all just stop spaying and neutereing dogs, when all the unwanted and unplanned pregnancies happen to the people who " cant figure out how THAT happened" , we can send you all the unwanted puppies and YOU can care for them...

I swear michael, you must say these things just to get people irate enough to post here...

[MyPemCharlie]

Apparently pet owners in New Zealand don't have the pet population we have here in the US. We've just spent the last 20-30 years increasing the spay/neuter rates so that we only have 10 unwanted animals euthanized every minute, every day, 365 days a year.

Also spay/neuter does not cause personality changes, and the behavior changes (if any) are for the positive.

[LaRogue]

Neutering dogs is mutilation and usually causes behavioral and personality changes and probably causes mental stress.

Not unless it's an older dog. The only change I've seen after neutering is that my dogs stopped going on hunger strikes.

[Michael Romanos]

Go Corgi seeks to create discussion.

I stand behind everything I said to start off this thread and can easily back up all the points I have made.

The question about overpopulation of dogs is another matter and most Go Corgi members would never get their dogs into a situation of being party to an unwanted pregnancy.

[Chip's Mom]

Neutering dogs is mutilation and usually causes behavioral and personality changes and probably causes mental stress.

Somewhere in the mind of a dog is stored upsets, disappointments, anguish and heartaches

Well Michael - both of my boys are neutered and I don't see any behavioral or personality changes in either one of them. It is far better to have them neutered for health reasons, lowers their risk of cancers, neither boys mark their territory and no major dogfights and no risk of them running off when they smell a female in heat 10 miles away or inappropriate behavior. I can't imagine where this is coming from. Is this your logic in not having Taylor neutered? Docking ears is not even in the same category as neutering or spaying your pet. I cannot imagine anyone not having their animal spayed or neutered if they aren't going to be used for breeding purposes.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Whatever you want to think of it or prefer - docking dog tails and cropping ears of dogs are acts of mutilation. Tails can play an important role in a dog's social and communicative life and act as a balance in certain situations.

Debarked dogs: dogs can produce two dozen different vocal sounds and the mutilation of their vocal chords in their not being able to vocalise at a correct natural pitch and to their full extent, probably causes them distress, social drawbacks, and physchological, communicative and mental disadvantages.

Neutering dogs is mutilation and usually causes behavioral and personality changes and probably causes mental stress.

Somewhere in the mind of a dog is stored upsets, disappointments, anguish and heartaches.

I'm not going to comment on debarking because we're never going to agree there.

Isn't Taylor docked? And you consider him "mulitated". This is an Animal Rights way of thinking. These dogs are not "mulitilated". Docking and cropping has been going on for years and the dogs have not and do not suffer from it. It needs to remain and option to the owner/breeder not something mandated by law.

You know, Pembrokes and many other breeds have gotten along without tails for an awfully long time. They don't miss their tails and don't IMO, seem to have suffered from being docked.

Neutering is not mutilation either. And in this country (meaning the US) it's due to spaying and neutering of pets that the euthanazia numbers have gone down. Without spaying and neutering there would be lots of "unwanted" litters an unwanted dogs and cats.

Thinking of this as mutilation is a human emotion. Dogs don't see their sexual organs the same as humans. And they don't see the act of sexual intercourse the same as humans either. For animals it's strictly for procreation not pleasure.

And I do not belive that dog stores heartaches, disappointments or anguish over being docked, debarked or neutered. Dogs live in the here and now. They don't fret over what happened in the past or what might have been.

Those are also human emotions.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Dillydoodle

Michael, If people let their dogs remain intact there would be an explosion of unwanted puppies being euthanized daily.... you have no idea how irresponsible it is not to spay and neuter... Being on these forums has actually illustrated to me how many people are NOT responsible and DO NOT do the right things by their dogs, and advocating these same people to not spay and neuter...you must be crazy.. I know, why dont we all just stop spaying and neutereing dogs, when all the unwanted and unplanned pregnancies happen to the people who " cant figure out how THAT happened" , we can send you all the unwanted puppies and YOU can care for them...

I swear michael, you must say these things just to get people irate enough to post here...

All I can say is Amen!!

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Go Corgi seeks to create discussion.

I stand behind everything I said to start off this thread and can easily back up all the points I have made.

The question about overpopulation of dogs is another matter and most Go Corgi members would never get their dogs into a situation of being party to an unwanted pregnancy.

Go Corgi does not "seek" to create discussion. Go corgi is a forum, a thing not a person. A forum cannot creat discussion. A forum provides an area for discussion.

And there is enough discussion going on without creating reasons to argue.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Chip's Mom

Well Michael - both of my boys are neutered and I don't see any behavioral or personality changes in either one of them. It is far better to have them neutered for health reasons, lowers their risk of cancers, neither boys mark their territory and no major dogfights and no risk of them running off when they smell a female in heat 10 miles away or inappropriate behavior. I can't imagine where this is coming from. Is this your logic in not having Taylor neutered? Docking ears is not even in the same category as neutering or spaying your pet. I cannot imagine anyone not having their animal spayed or neutered if they aren't going to be used for breeding purposes.

I'm with you Bonnie, that has been my experince too. And I have both neutered and intact dogs here. The neutered ones are easier to live with, and that is a change for the better!

I agree, any dog not being be shown and bred should be altered.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Peggy - normal intelligent dogs do not forget. They have wonderful stored memories and some memory channels that far, far outdo those of humans. Dogs have ALL the emotions of humans. Whoever told you the opposite.
Anyone in the medical field will tell you that neutering a dog is an act of mutilation.

[Chip's Mom]

Michael - How can a neutered male have a memory of something they never had in the first place? If you get a male neutered prior to the hormones kicking in or before they have bred, they wouldn't have anything to remember - that doesn't make any sense either so I don't understand your logic and if you aren't going to use them for breeding, then with your logic, you could be causing them more anguish and confusion by not having them neutered don't you think.

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Go Corgi seeks to create discussion.

Sheesh Michael ....

I stand behind everything I said to start off this thread and can easily back up all the points I have made.

So cite references and Disney animation isn't going to count.

The question about overpopulation of dogs is another matter and most Go Corgi members would never get their dogs into a situation of being party to an unwanted pregnancy.

You sure? You constantly promote and cheer that very type of thing on.

Debbie

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by LaRogue

Not unless it's an older dog. The only change I've seen after neutering is that my dogs stopped going on hunger strikes.

Not even in an older dog is there mental stress or anguish. Disneyesque anthromorphic projections on dogs are a big part of the source of the twist of this thread.

Debbie