Your Corgi forever

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by behinderhereyes

I don't think I would ever get a clone. In my opinion it is just like trying to play god and that is just wrong. Also seening a clone of sophie would only make me cry thinking of the real sophie. No dog can replace my baby girl.

I agree. I think each of our pets should be loved for who he or she is. Not for the one who came before.

I discourage people from getting a pet with very similar markings and from naming them after the pet that's passed on. I tell them the new one deserves to be loved for itself not continually compared to the one that has passed on.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Cloning dogs will become a normal option in time and people who go for it will be fully aware of every implication and what they can expect. You cannot achieve in breeding what you are able to manipulate through the cloning process.

[MyPemCharlie]

I hope cloning will not become "normal". If it were to become a realistic option, I think the "fad" would be short-lived as people realized that the cloned dog's personality never turned out like the original version.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

I hope cloning will not become "normal". If it were to become a realistic option, I think the "fad" would be short-lived as people realized that the cloned dog's personality never turned out like the original version.

I totally agree with you Chris!

Cloning has been around for awhile now and so far it has not become a normal option. Remember Dolly the sheep? She had some health problems, aged prematurely and died young.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Cloning dogs is just new and is very much different and more challenging than cloning sheep. I think one has to give the process a chance to properly develop as it moves towards perfection and the desired results.

[MyPemCharlie]

I find the thought of cloning Charlie eerily disturbing. He has the most delightful "almost perfect" personality and temperament. I think that trying to make a copy of him would result in great disappointment and detract greatly from everything that makes him special and unique.

Of much less relevance (than moral considerations), the same conformation flaws that make Charlie "pet quality", not good breeding stock, would also make cloning him unethical. I would think that the standards as to which dogs should or should not be cloned, would be the same as which dogs should or should not be bred. Cloning would open up a whole new can of worms.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

I find the thought of cloning Charlie eerily disturbing. He has the most delightful "almost perfect" personality and temperament. I think that trying to make a copy of him would result in great disappointment and detract greatly from everything that makes him special and unique.

I think you're right Chris.

Of much less relevance (than moral considerations), the same conformation flaws that make Charlie "pet quality", not good breeding stock, would also make cloning him unethical. I would think that the standards as to which dogs should or should not be cloned, would be the same as which dogs should or should not be bred. Cloning would open up a whole new can of worms.

You have a very good point. The people doing the cloning aren't even considering that train of thought.

IMO, Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

Like Chris, I'm not in favor of cloneing pets.


JMO,
Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

I think i pointerd out that cloning also has the potential to remove faults. It is no different to breeding - some breeders will only match up what will enhance their chosen breed. Same with cloning.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

I think i pointerd out that cloning also has the potential to remove faults. It is no different to breeding - some breeders will only match up what will enhance their chosen breed. Same with cloning.

That only works if the people doing the cloing care about "faults" and know what they are. Chances are they won't. Maybe health problems but breeders look beyond that to other faults too.

And what would be the purpose of breeding if you don't "match up" what enhances your chosen breed? The whole idea is to improve the next generation with as few faults as possible. So of course you look for a mate for your dogs that will enhance what you already have.

Peggy

[Michael Romanos]

Peggy - your view on cloning is too narrow and you therefore resort to negativity and in creating obstacles that don't necessary exist or will exist. The same care and attention to cloning for the best results can be paid as there are for breeding. When up and away, there will be dog specialist cloning people who will know what they are doing and are able to vet customers - and say no to customers just as veterinary doctors can say no to their customers.

[Moviesnob]

I don't do any type of breeding, but it seems to me that cloning would take the "fun" or whatever out of breeding. Isn't the point training and seeing if your dog has what it takes to be best in show? And if you clone a dog that's already a champion, then you pretty much know you're getting one that's exactly the same - doesn't it take the point away from breeding for show?

I don't know, like I said I've never done any breeding and don't intend to, but that's the vibe I get from it.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Moviesnob

I don't do any type of breeding, but it seems to me that cloning would take the "fun" or whatever out of breeding. Isn't the point training and seeing if your dog has what it takes to be best in show?

Yes, and no. First we try to find a stud that will compliment our female and correct her faults without introducing new ones. It's a challenge to produce the "perfect" corgi. Which of course Mother Nature makes sure doesn't happen.

It's not just training and seeing if your dog will do well in the show ring. You have to have the quality, a dog close to the standard to begin with or all the training in the world won't help, for conformation anyway.

Most of us are not trying for a "Best In Show" dog. That would be icing on the cake. The real goal is a championship on your dog, and maybe for some to go on to win Best of Breed and group placements. Yeah, we dream of best in show, but for the majority of us that doesn't happen.

And if you clone a dog that's already a champion, then you pretty much know you're getting one that's exactly the same - doesn't it take the point away from breeding for show?

Yes, it does. Like I said, however, I sincerly doubt that the people cloning pets will be intrested in correcting faults. They aren't breed specialists and I don't see them becoming breed specialists. Right now they are selling to the pet market, those that want "Fluffy" back.

Like I said the pictures of the cats I saw the kittens weren't even the same markings as the one they cloned from. So IMO, you are not getting the exact replica and that to me would be the whole idea of cloning.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Peggy - your view on cloning is too narrow and you therefore resort to negativity and in creating obstacles that don't necessary exist or will exist. The same care and attention to cloning for the best results can be paid as there are for breeding. When up and away, there will be dog specialist cloning people who will know what they are doing and are able to vet customers - and say no to customers just as veterinary doctors can say no to their customers.

A "dog specialist" is not the same as a "breed specialist". Faults are different in each breed. I just don't see it going that direction.

"Can" is a lot different from "will". From the other lists I'm on where this has been discussed, the "dog fancy" (meaning show breeders) aren't going this route. They don't see the need for cloning.

I don't think man should be playing God by cloning animals. I think they are playing with fire here.

Peggy

[MyPemCharlie]

Originally Posted by Peggy

Yes, and no. First we try to find a stud that will compliment our female and correct her faults without introducing new ones. It's a challenge to produce the "perfect" corgi. Which of course Mother Nature makes sure doesn't happen.

It's not just training and seeing if your dog will do well in the show ring. You have to have the quality, a dog close to the standard to begin with or all the training in the world won't help, for conformation anyway.

Most of us are not trying for a "Best In Show" dog. That would be icing on the cake. The real goal is a championship on your dog, and maybe for some to go on to win Best of Breed and group placements. Yeah, we dream of best in show, but for the majority of us that doesn't happen.



Yes, it does. Like I said, however, I sincerly doubt that the people cloning pets will be intrested in correcting faults. They aren't breed specialists and I don't see them becoming breed specialists. Right now they are selling to the pet market, those that want "Fluffy" back.

Like I said the pictures of the cats I saw the kittens weren't even the same markings as the one they cloned from. So IMO, you are not getting the exact replica and that to me would be the whole idea of cloning.

Peggy

OFF TOPIC: Your discussion on breeding and show reminds me that you've returned from a recent show. I'm sure we'd all like to hear how Blaze did. Me thinks you don't brag enough about your accomplishments, Peggy.

...sorry to go off topic...

Back on topic, I would think cloning would be an intention for an exact replica of the original, good and bad. So if they can tweak a clone to remove faulths, then techically, is it still a clone or just some kind of gentically altered "Frankenstein" experiment? I just can't get my arms around any kind of support for cloning.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

OFF TOPIC: Your discussion on breeding and show reminds me that you've returned from a recent show. I'm sure we'd all like to hear how Blaze did. Me thinks you don't brag enough about your accomplishments, Peggy.

One Best of Breed out of 4 days. Three Best of Opposite Sex placements. And on the day he won BOB he was pulled in group. (Meaning he was considered for a group placement. We didn't get one but it's still and honor to be pulled.)

...sorry to go off topic...

Back on topic, I would think cloning would be an intention for an exact replica of the original, good and bad. So if they can tweak a clone to remove faulths, then techically, is it still a clone or just some kind of gentically altered "Frankenstein" experiment? I just can't get my arms around any kind of support for cloning.

You're right. If they tweak it it's not an exact replica. And I thought that was the point. Especially with pets.

Peggy