Is agility damaging to Corgis

[glencorgi]

CPE is one venue I think Brenda may be referring to. NADAC is not as strenuous in its jumping requirements. AKC now has Preferred Classes which are lower than the regular AKC classes.

Debbie

[Chip's Mom]

Thanks for your response, I will research and ask Judy (the obedience trainer) if she has any info. The one time Chip was in the agility playground, he walked across the jumps as Judy put them way down low for him. Also my husband has been wanting to try his luck at making Chip his own playground so I will find out the specs and we will see.

[Bobbie]

This is a bit late to respond on this but at least in CPE and NADAC many corgis can jump 4 inches. While I agree that really hard-core competitiveness can push any dog, not just a corgi, too hard, I think agility can certainly be done safely with a corgi. There are plenty of older corgis out there that have been doing it for years and are still capable of running an agility course.

CPE is a nice venue for taking an easier approach to agility. They have the Specialist class, which allows virtually any corgi to jump at 4 inches at any age, and many games which allow you to avoid the A-frame (probably harder on most corgis than jumping) and still have fun competing. NADAC has a breed exemption and also a skilled class, so most corgis can jump 4 inches if you choose to do so. (Some corgis routinely jump 12 inches in competition; personally, I would not ask that of my dogs.)

As for back injuries, jumping OFF things like sofas and beds and out of cars is far more dangerous than jumping over things like jumps. But a corgi in good physical condition is less likely to be injured than one that is a couch potato and overweight.

[Michael Romanos]

Bobbie - I agree with a lot of the things you said but my Pem, Taylor is 3.75 years and we have been going in agility since he was 2 and he jumps 380mm which is 15 inches - because that is the standard height for mini dogs in New Zealand. I believe it will be reduced to the more international standard of 300mm (11.8in) at some stage in the future. But Taylor can easily accomplish 15 inch jumps so long as he is not carrying any extra weight. In one sense I look forward to the day the 11.8in heights for jumps are introduced but quite frankly these would not be challenging enough for Taylor - and that is coming from a guy who would like to see separated mini competitons in NZ where Taylor could easlily hold his own. NZ (and now I believe Australia) have the A-frame at maxi dog height for mini dogs such as Corgis. That means Taylor climbs around two metres from the ground before the journey down. A-frames are a peice of cake even for toy dogs in Nz because of the pin ball, thick rubberised surface that most of them now have which provides excellent grip. But the trip down the A-frame could be the danger point for Corgis if they decide - through incorrect handling or on their own steam - to jump off the frame well before the contact zone - something like a one metre jump. But I have a theory: because the Corgi is geared to make the leap and is actually propelling forward and not just a downward plunge, the action is not nearly as dangerous as it would seem. Taylor has been prematurely jumping off A-frames quite recently in reverting back to what he was doing several months ago (and I thought I had corrected the problem) much to my annoyance.

But a 4 inch jump. Now that's a real joke even for a toy poodle.

PS I just learnt today that in France the mini size dogs ( and what would be termed micro) have to jump 35cm (13.8 inches).

[Chip's Mom]

In our obedience class, there is the cutest little dachshund who is also doing agility. He has torn something in his leg and has phases of limping so I have decided no agility for Chip. It may not injure him, but I am not going to risk it. Chip does enough running and jumping at the house. LOL

[Bobbie]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Bobbie - Taylor can easily accomplish 15 inch jumps so long as he is not carrying any extra weight.

My corgis can all jump 12 (we haven't tried 15) but its the repeated jumping that concerns me. I do jump one corgi at 4 because she knocks bars at 8. My others jump 8. Jumping well belong required height is one way to make agility (especially a long agility career) safer. Some venues this means that you aren't in the top competitive track, and therefore some people will have their dogs jump 12 inches. In USDAA my tall corgi would have to jump 16 if he were in the more competitive track, and we just choose not to do that.)

A-frames are a peice of cake even for toy dogs in Nz because of the pin ball, thick rubberised surface that most of them now have which provides exceelent grip.

Ours don't all have that surface. Many still have painted wood surfaces with slats, which can catch a dog's toes and injure them.

But the trip down the A-frame could be the danger point for Corgis if they decide - through incorrect handling or on their own steam - to jump off the frame well before the contact zone - something like a one metre jump. Bit I have a theory: because the Corgi is geared to make the leap and is actually propelling forward and not just a downward plunge, the action is not nearly as daqngerous as it would seem.

My feeling is jumping off is probably safer than trying to slow themselves to stay on to the bottom. But the dogs love the A-frame so it must not bother them much.

But a 4 inch jump. Now that's a real joke even for a toy poodle.

If your dog jumps 15 easily, then that's a joke, if you want an athletic competition that depends on high jumps. But that isn't, in my opinion, what agility is about. Its about having fun with your dog, doing something you both love. A dog that jumps 4 inches still has to follow your directions around a course- that is, work WITH you to complete the courses.

I have one corgi that easily clears 12 but is longer by about 4 inches than his sister. He'll jump 8 most of his career and go to 4 when he is a senior. Could he jump 16? (We don't have 15.) Probably. But it wouldn't be very good for him, doing that over and over again. And the post from Brynlea that I wanted to address was that agility is dangerous for corgis. I wanted to show that it does not, at least in this country, have to be dangerous, as long as the human member of the team is willing to give up some of the elite titles and show in venues that are corgi-friendly.

[manymuddypaws]

Since this thread is active again, I will throw my .o2cents in. I joined just a few weeks ago, and this thread hadn't been active for a while.

I do alot of agility. I teach and train agility in the summer three days a week. My corgis both jump 10inches in AAC(Agility Association of Canada) and 12inches in CKC and NADAC. Wicca is a lean mean, speed machine - weighing 20lbs at 11.5inches tall. Sam is 24lbs at almost 12inches tall. They are both cardigans. I teach a 2 on 2 off contact (meaning she runs to the bottom of the contact, stops with her back feet on the equip. and her front on the ground, where she does a nose touch on the ground- this keeps her spine straight.) I purchased Wicca with agility in mind and have been "doing agility" with her since she was a baby! Not full size equipment or weaves, but she learnt tunnels, poles on the ground, how to run across a flat board, how to keep her balance on a tippy board. How to run through a weave chute. All those things at a young age- starting at 9 weeks!

She started competing as soon as she turned 18months old. She is in great shape and if I thought I was doing anything to hurt her I would stop. My dog LOVES the game. She is happiest when she is running and playing, why should I deny that to her "just in case" - well maybe we shouldn't let our dogs play with toys "just in case" they choke or ingest something.

The dogs that get hurt, or injured are dogs that are "weekend warriors" Dogs who aren't exercised except for agility, dogs who aren't taught how to safely do equipment- (this is the big one in my opinion, a fly off on the teeter, wall or dogwalk can cause major problems...not that Wicca hasn't done that a time or two but I train to prevent it), or dogs who are overweight or under muscled. My dogs run, every day, we do warm ups before any strenuous workouts- just as with people when you run cold you are more likely to tear or sprain something.

Wicca is going to be dropped into the "specials" class where she can jump 8 inches- she is a horrible jumper and really has a hard time keeping the bars up. I am still a competitive person- This dog has such huge potential, and even in a "specials" class is going to kick those papillon butts! (Papillons are huge in my area) But I don't want you to think that it is all about winning with me- like I said, my dogs are happiest doing agility- it gives me goosebumps sometimes when i watch Wicca or Sam on video- the joy they express is amazing! After a run Sam is so thrilled he will jump into my arms, wicca barks and runs circles around me until we get out of the ring to tug.
I am obsessed with the sport, I will be the first to admit it, but I am obsessed because my dogs are!

Chips Mom, I think that if there is a chance that Dillon will like agility, give it a shot, it's worth the risk in my opinion!

-amanda

[Bobbie]

Originally Posted by manymuddypaws

Chips Mom, I think that if there is a chance that Dillon will like agility, give it a shot, it's worth the risk in my opinion!

One thing I like to remind people is that we ourselves choose to do sports that wear down our joints and make our muscles sore and have risks of injury, because we love doing them. We take the chance that we might have an injury. People (not me) even chance fatal injury in many sports. We can put our dogs in padded kennels and protect them, or we can let them be dogs and have fun even if it means a higher risk of injury. We have to choose what risks are acceptable for them, because they can't choose for themselves.

Bobbie

[Michael Romanos]

There is no way agility jumps in New Zealand will ever be as low as 4 inches. Even when we introduce micro competition for toy and very small dogs, it will never get that non-competitive, non challenging. It is not in the NZ psyche.
Taylor has done some marvellous clear round jumping where he has been placed high among dogs of all sizes - mostly considerably larger (maxi size) - and among big numbers, Soime of these events are called 'jumpers' meaning they are jumps only (up to 20) and may not have tunnels or weaves and certainly no contacts. Taylor has never fallen off a dog walk or a cross over or an A-frame.
Like Amanda, I am always conscious of my Corgi's well being. But I also believe in letting him live life to the full. He obviously loves agility and he loves being off-leash and he enjoys mixing in with almost every dog and he loves long hikes. So he gets involved in all these activities - much to his advantage. He is not simply a pretty addition to the house.

[MissGambler'sMommy]

I almost feel insulted, Michael. Don't hate Miss Gambler just because she's pretty!

[Michael Romanos]

The attractiveness of Pems attracted them to me in the first place. So Miss Gambler can be as pretty as she is around the house without fear. Though I would suggest that you hang her on the wall for safe keeping along with a piece of that rug she destroyed.

[Mvons]

How dog got a herniated disc when she jumped down off a chair at age 13. She had a sprained hip/leg at age 4 months when she jumped off a 3 stair porch...my husband didn't believe she could squeeze under the lowest railing. She recovered from both but was stiff her last year...15!

Thus she was never hurt jumping up, only jumping down. 4 inches is nothing because she handled the 4 inch drop from our deck edge to the ground until she was ill.

Merrie