Pit bulls - Page 2

MyPemCharlie · 10-07-2007, 12:53 PM

An interesting study by Merritt Clifton listing statistics of dog attacks over a 24 year period (US & Canada). The report is broken down to the following catagories: 1) bodily harm 2) child attacks 3) adult attacks 4) deaths adn 5) maulings. Listing includes every breed of dog reported.

DOG BITE LAW - the most trusted and extensive resource for dog bite victims, parents of victims, and dog owners needing legal information.

By far, the most attacks in all categories were made by pit bulls followed by rottweilers, GSD's and wolf mixes. The author breaks down the particular dog breed's motivation for attacks for each of these 4 top-attacking breeds.

The author's conclusion specific to Pit Bulls and Rottweilers is that they are breeds which should be handled with special precautions and regulated with special requirements.

I agree with Mr. Clifton. My previous dog was an alpha male rottweiler. I put him through puppy kingergarten, basic and advanced obedience classes, and kept him socialized. He passed the CGC test. He was on the "no free lunch" program. He was still a "hard" dog with rules. I had to tell friends, "No roughhousing. Don't ever get down even with or below his eye level. No hugging." etc. etc. etc.) I would never have been comfortable to leave him with people with me being present.

I saw my dog turn from a calm Dr. Jekyl into vicious Mr. Hyde 3 or 4 times in his 10-year lifetime. He never mauled anyone, but that was clearly his next step if I had not been in control of him. Had anyone adopted him and not put him through the proper training, he probably would have been a vicious dog and been euthanized for injuring someone, or worse.

I do not believe that specific breeds of dogs should be banned. I do believe that potential owners need to be tested and licensed to own specific breeds. (I would include Chows, in additions to Pits, Rotts, and GSD's).

On the bright side...

Not one single incidence of Corgi attack is in this report!

glencorgi · 10-07-2007, 03:10 PM

Given the slant of Animal People, there aren't any surprises in the article. CDC would be a much better resource. As a brief wake up call, just because this report didn't list any corgi attacks, doesn't mean they don't occur. I have the scars on my hand differ with the report. There is also a blog I came across where a corgi attack a toy dog and savagely ravaged it. The owner of the toy dog would like to see the extinction of corgis and his description would rival any sensationalized headline concerning a supposed pit bull attack any time.

The beginning of this thread had nothing to do with pit bulls other than they happened to be the "breed" off leash. The focus should have been on the enforcement of leash laws.

Debbie

MyPemCharlie · 10-07-2007, 04:59 PM

I posted the Animal People data because I though it was less skewed, broader, and more current report than CDC. CDC's last report was limited to dog bites resulting in Human Fatalities. Both reports used media reports as a basis, but CDC also included humane society data. The CDC report is broadly used by PAC's to support specific breed ban legislation.

Both reports however, show the same results in terms of top breeds to bite/attack/kill people, and in the same order.

CDC link: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

Anyway, people who raise anti-social, vicious dogs should be kept on lease 24 hours a day.

Michael Romanos · 10-07-2007, 08:46 PM

Thank you My Pem Charlie. The obvious can sometimes be overlooked.
I don't want leash laws for all dogs, all breeds - I want to be able to have my Pem and other Corgis off leash as much as possible.

glencorgi · 10-08-2007, 10:30 AM

Leash laws are a public safety and health issue, it has nothing to do with breed specific issues. Enforced leash laws go a long way in preventing unwanted or planned litters as well. Without meaning too, MyPemCharlie is crossing over into promoting 24 hour tethering, which IF one believes the hype and propaganda is a reason for anti-social vicious dogs.

The issue here isn't the Corgi Walking group being able to have their corgis off leash in a supervised outing, the issue is free roaming dogs not being contained on an owners' property.

Debbie

MyPemCharlie · 10-08-2007, 10:52 AM

>MyPemCharlie is crossing over into promoting 24 hour tethering<

No I'm not. If you re-read my reply, I wrote that the PEOPLE who raise vicious dogs should be leashed 24 hours a day (not the dogs). It was just a joke to lighten things up.

...obviously not a very good one.

fogebotom · 10-08-2007, 11:56 AM

Thanks for getting this back on track. Any dog, regardless of breed, in an off leash situation needs to be properly trained and socialized. Otherwise as Debbie mentioned - any dog can cause harm to any dog.

What I see most of is the "attitude" of the owners or the people responsible for the dogs that cause the problems. And yes many of those people are owners of large dogs, usually poorly bred and purchased for reasons that they shouldn't have been purchased for. I have a friend who is similar to that attitude but breeds a large very docile, hound breed. She has a slightly reckless regard for the well being of others concerning her dogs, ie, let's them get away with s**t at the dog park but attributes it to the breed type and that's just how they are wired.

Sorry, don't care what the breed is, it must have manners, training and be social to be offleash or out in public.

Cindy and the crew

Michael Romanos · 10-08-2007, 06:23 PM

I can never agree to be forced to have dogs on leash. Remarkably, The Upper Hutt City Council - a bureaucratic outfit - has it over you doggie people. They allow all dogs off leash anywhere but in the CBD so long as they are under control.

Cheetah · 10-08-2007, 08:23 PM

Unfortunately, a huge number of people let their dogs off leash, and have absolutely NO control over them.

Michael Romanos · 10-10-2007, 12:49 AM

Be like the Upper Hutt City Council and DONT penalise everyone.

MattC · 10-10-2007, 10:52 AM

My sister has an American Pit Bull terrier and my corgi and he are best of friends. Infact It is usually the corgi that tends to nip at the pit bull while they are playing. However I have seen pit bulls attack and it is not pretty. Unfortunatly most of the pitbulls in my neighborhood are actually rescued dogs and their behaviour is a result of being abused. A few months back a pit bull in my neghborhood jumped up and got a hold of a person's face on the street. It was pretty scary.

Cheetah · 10-10-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyPemCharlie

On the bright side...

Not one single incidence of Corgi attack is in this report!

I just had to comment... I work at a very large shelter in Denver, CO and took care of a corgi today, who is a bite case lol... Meaning he bit someone, and it was reported, and he's being quarantined at the shelter for 10 days.

Michael Romanos · 10-11-2007, 07:33 PM

A monument has just been installed in a small town in New Zealand. it is a statue of George, a Jack Russell Terrier who died a few months ago, attempting to save three next door kids from the attack of two Pit Bull Terriers. George gave up his life for his friends an act which filled his owner with pride and devastation.
It is the fourth or fifth permanent public monument/statue devoted to a dog in NZ - one of them depicts three Pembroke Corgis

Cheetah · 10-11-2007, 07:56 PM

Also, I'd like to add that there are a few pit bulls at the shelter where I work and guess what? They're *GASP* Not aggressive! They're going to breed rescues in neighboring cities where the breed isn't banned, and I'm very happy for them. They're already passed the required behavior tests.

I don't care what anyone thinks, I'm going to have a pit bull one day. With my corgi. OMG the world is ending! >9.9<

But seriously, saying "ALL PIT BULLS ARE VICIOUS" is like saying "all black people hold up convenience stores." The statement is RIDICULOUS. It's called a BLANKET STATEMENT. Whether ANY dog, regardless of breed, or person, regardless of race, is dangerous/bad depends ENTIRELY on their upbringing/socialization (and in the dogs' case, good/bad breeding). I'm getting really tired of the blanket statements.

Michael Romanos · 10-11-2007, 08:22 PM

I don't for one moment believe all Pit Bulls are vicious. Many would be very nice pets for everyone. They are quite simply a breed that contains too many untrustworthy members. They are not the only breed that is in this position. I just finished an article for the NZ Kennel Club magazine on Colleen Begg who has been the club's registrar for 12 years and enployed by the club for 20. Twenty years ago, the NZKC had twice as many human members than it does now. Why? Two reasons: conformation showing has declined and the breeding of big dogs that produce big litters has declined - especially Rottweilers, Dobermans. Now both these breeds and a few others among the more popular, were in a similar position to Pit Bulls - more potentially dangerous towards other dogs and people especially children (and a lot of children can be the cause of a dog attack). We don't have a large Rottie and Doberman population anymore and they consequently are not the threat that they once were.

10-07-2007, 04:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,152 Images: 20	CDC vs Animal People data I posted the Animal People data because I though it was less skewed, broader, and more current report than CDC. CDC's last report was limited to dog bites resulting in Human Fatalities. Both reports used media reports as a basis, but CDC also included humane society data. The CDC report is broadly used by PAC's to support specific breed ban legislation. Both reports however, show the same results in terms of top breeds to bite/attack/kill people, and in the same order. CDC link: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf Anyway, people who raise anti-social, vicious dogs should be kept on lease 24 hours a day.

10-08-2007, 10:52 AM	#21 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,152 Images: 20	Leash the bad people >MyPemCharlie is crossing over into promoting 24 hour tethering< No I'm not. If you re-read my reply, I wrote that the PEOPLE who raise vicious dogs should be leashed 24 hours a day (not the dogs). It was just a joke to lighten things up. ...obviously not a very good one.

10-11-2007, 08:22 PM	#30 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,900 Images: 2	I don't for one moment believe all Pit Bulls are vicious. Many would be very nice pets for everyone. They are quite simply a breed that contains too many untrustworthy members. They are not the only breed that is in this position. I just finished an article for the NZ Kennel Club magazine on Colleen Begg who has been the club's registrar for 12 years and enployed by the club for 20. Twenty years ago, the NZKC had twice as many human members than it does now. Why? Two reasons: conformation showing has declined and the breeding of big dogs that produce big litters has declined - especially Rottweilers, Dobermans. Now both these breeds and a few others among the more popular, were in a similar position to Pit Bulls - more potentially dangerous towards other dogs and people especially children (and a lot of children can be the cause of a dog attack). We don't have a large Rottie and Doberman population anymore and they consequently are not the threat that they once were. Last edited by Michael Romanos; 10-12-2007 at 03:15 AM.

10-07-2007, 12:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
MyPemCharlie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,152 Images: 20	An interesting study by Merritt Clifton listing statistics of dog attacks over a 24 year period (US & Canada). The report is broken down to the following catagories: 1) bodily harm 2) child attacks 3) adult attacks 4) deaths adn 5) maulings. Listing includes every breed of dog reported. DOG BITE LAW - the most trusted and extensive resource for dog bite victims, parents of victims, and dog owners needing legal information. By far, the most attacks in all categories were made by pit bulls followed by rottweilers, GSD's and wolf mixes. The author breaks down the particular dog breed's motivation for attacks for each of these 4 top-attacking breeds. The author's conclusion specific to Pit Bulls and Rottweilers is that they are breeds which should be handled with special precautions and regulated with special requirements. I agree with Mr. Clifton. My previous dog was an alpha male rottweiler. I put him through puppy kingergarten, basic and advanced obedience classes, and kept him socialized. He passed the CGC test. He was on the "no free lunch" program. He was still a "hard" dog with rules. I had to tell friends, "No roughhousing. Don't ever get down even with or below his eye level. No hugging." etc. etc. etc.) I would never have been comfortable to leave him with people with me being present. I saw my dog turn from a calm Dr. Jekyl into vicious Mr. Hyde 3 or 4 times in his 10-year lifetime. He never mauled anyone, but that was clearly his next step if I had not been in control of him. Had anyone adopted him and not put him through the proper training, he probably would have been a vicious dog and been euthanized for injuring someone, or worse. I do not believe that specific breeds of dogs should be banned. I do believe that potential owners need to be tested and licensed to own specific breeds. (I would include Chows, in additions to Pits, Rotts, and GSD's). On the bright side... Not one single incidence of Corgi attack is in this report!

10-07-2007, 03:10 PM	#17 (permalink)
glencorgi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Piedmont Triad, NC Posts: 2,417 Images: 3	Given the slant of Animal People, there aren't any surprises in the article. CDC would be a much better resource. As a brief wake up call, just because this report didn't list any corgi attacks, doesn't mean they don't occur. I have the scars on my hand differ with the report. There is also a blog I came across where a corgi attack a toy dog and savagely ravaged it. The owner of the toy dog would like to see the extinction of corgis and his description would rival any sensationalized headline concerning a supposed pit bull attack any time. The beginning of this thread had nothing to do with pit bulls other than they happened to be the "breed" off leash. The focus should have been on the enforcement of leash laws. Debbie

10-07-2007, 08:46 PM	#19 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,900 Images: 2	Thank you My Pem Charlie. The obvious can sometimes be overlooked. I don't want leash laws for all dogs, all breeds - I want to be able to have my Pem and other Corgis off leash as much as possible.

10-08-2007, 10:30 AM	#20 (permalink)
glencorgi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Piedmont Triad, NC Posts: 2,417 Images: 3	Leash laws are a public safety and health issue, it has nothing to do with breed specific issues. Enforced leash laws go a long way in preventing unwanted or planned litters as well. Without meaning too, MyPemCharlie is crossing over into promoting 24 hour tethering, which IF one believes the hype and propaganda is a reason for anti-social vicious dogs. The issue here isn't the Corgi Walking group being able to have their corgis off leash in a supervised outing, the issue is free roaming dogs not being contained on an owners' property. Debbie

10-08-2007, 11:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
fogebotom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 239 Images: 3	Thanks for getting this back on track. Any dog, regardless of breed, in an off leash situation needs to be properly trained and socialized. Otherwise as Debbie mentioned - any dog can cause harm to any dog. What I see most of is the "attitude" of the owners or the people responsible for the dogs that cause the problems. And yes many of those people are owners of large dogs, usually poorly bred and purchased for reasons that they shouldn't have been purchased for. I have a friend who is similar to that attitude but breeds a large very docile, hound breed. She has a slightly reckless regard for the well being of others concerning her dogs, ie, let's them get away with s**t at the dog park but attributes it to the breed type and that's just how they are wired. Sorry, don't care what the breed is, it must have manners, training and be social to be offleash or out in public. Cindy and the crew

10-08-2007, 06:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,900 Images: 2	I can never agree to be forced to have dogs on leash. Remarkably, The Upper Hutt City Council - a bureaucratic outfit - has it over you doggie people. They allow all dogs off leash anywhere but in the CBD so long as they are under control.

10-08-2007, 08:23 PM	#24 (permalink)
Cheetah Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 352 Images: 28	Unfortunately, a huge number of people let their dogs off leash, and have absolutely NO control over them.

10-10-2007, 12:49 AM	#25 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,900 Images: 2	Be like the Upper Hutt City Council and DONT penalise everyone.

10-10-2007, 10:52 AM	#26 (permalink)
MattC Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 160 Images: 16	My sister has an American Pit Bull terrier and my corgi and he are best of friends. Infact It is usually the corgi that tends to nip at the pit bull while they are playing. However I have seen pit bulls attack and it is not pretty. Unfortunatly most of the pitbulls in my neighborhood are actually rescued dogs and their behaviour is a result of being abused. A few months back a pit bull in my neghborhood jumped up and got a hold of a person's face on the street. It was pretty scary.

10-11-2007, 07:33 PM	#28 (permalink)
Michael Romanos Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Silverstream (near Wellington, the capital of NZ) Posts: 4,900 Images: 2	A monument has just been installed in a small town in New Zealand. it is a statue of George, a Jack Russell Terrier who died a few months ago, attempting to save three next door kids from the attack of two Pit Bull Terriers. George gave up his life for his friends an act which filled his owner with pride and devastation. It is the fourth or fifth permanent public monument/statue devoted to a dog in NZ - one of them depicts three Pembroke Corgis

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10-11-2007, 07:56 PM	#29 (permalink)
Cheetah Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 352 Images: 28	Also, I'd like to add that there are a few pit bulls at the shelter where I work and guess what? They're GASP Not aggressive! They're going to breed rescues in neighboring cities where the breed isn't banned, and I'm very happy for them. They're already passed the required behavior tests. I don't care what anyone thinks, I'm going to have a pit bull one day. With my corgi. OMG the world is ending! >9.9< But seriously, saying "ALL PIT BULLS ARE VICIOUS" is like saying "all black people hold up convenience stores." The statement is RIDICULOUS. It's called a BLANKET STATEMENT. Whether ANY dog, regardless of breed, or person, regardless of race, is dangerous/bad depends ENTIRELY on their upbringing/socialization (and in the dogs' case, good/bad breeding). I'm getting really tired of the blanket statements.