Pit bulls

[Bailey's driver]

I have run across a couple of Pit Bulls being walked off leash lately. A friend has had his dog attacked by a pit bull that knew the dog already. They had to pry the pit's jaw apart with a long stick to save the other dog. Do you have any first hand experience with Pit Bulls anywhere near your Corgi? Or any experiences with them at all ? A woman was on a court TV show yesterday that had been ripped up by one. It was scary. The next one I see off leash, I'm using my cell phone to call the police. There is a leash law for all dogs where I live. We never truly know the motivation for everything an animal does.

[Cheetah]

I've seen aggressive pit bulls - tied to trees with no interaction or training/being walked by people who should not own them in the first place. I've never seen one attack another dog or person first hand. I HAVE seen many well-mannered pits, and Shippo even met one at the local dog park once.

So, I'm sorry, but all this anti-pit bull stuff is BS to me. EVERY dog should be leashed, regardless of breed, whether it's a pit or a chihuahua. I was attacked in my own yard by somebody's rat terriers who were not on leashes. I owned a golden retriever who turned out to be VERY aggressive. After I rehomed him, he attacked another dog and his owner in the park, severely injuring both of them, to the point of permanent damage. So it's not just pits. I don't care what anyone says. Although pits tend toward dog aggression (which is VASTLY different from human aggression), the majority of this "vicious pit bull" stuff is media hype. >u.u<

[glencorgi]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I've seen aggressive pit bulls - tied to trees with no interaction or training/being walked by people who should not own them in the first place. I've never seen one attack another dog or person first hand. I HAVE seen many well-mannered pits, and Shippo even met one at the local dog park once.

So, I'm sorry, but all this anti-pit bull stuff is BS to me. EVERY dog should be leashed, regardless of breed, whether it's a pit or a chihuahua. I was attacked in my own yard by somebody's rat terriers who were not on leashes. I owned a golden retriever who turned out to be VERY aggressive. After I rehomed him, he attacked another dog and his owner in the park, severely injuring both of them, to the point of permanent damage. So it's not just pits. I don't care what anyone says. Although pits tend toward dog aggression (which is VASTLY different from human aggression), the majority of this "vicious pit bull" stuff is media hype. >u.u<

AMEN and WELL SAID!!!!

Given that you do have leash laws where you live Bailey's Driver, then no matter what breed you see off-leash then a call to animal control would be in order.

Debbie

[Mvons]

My friend who had a pit bull always, always had him on a leash to control him.

What has worked for me when I encountered a mix pit that was not friendly, is I speak in a low, very loud voice, demanding that he go home. So many pits have owners that yell at them, or speak in a forceful voice, it helps to duplicate this voice. I've had them tuck their legs and go, or test me by standing there in defiance as I then repeat my command that they go home. I have had to learn this because animal control takes 4 hours to get here.

Now I am not talking about the ones curling their lips and snarling, I'm talking about the ones quietly approaching - they are not to be trusted in that state of casing you out. You can't talk baby talk because if they are friendly they get overly excited and knock you down to give you a lick because they are so strong.

When I had my dog, I would scoop her up and she only made things worse snarling at them. I looked far down the street to see if there are any loose dogs and change my route if there is.

Merrie

[Clogs]

I've seen agressive dogs of almost every breed at one time or another. Outright agression is more linked to bad or no training or bad breeding, in my mind, than to a specific breed.

In years gone past, before pit-bulls became the latest craze, German Shepherds and Labradors had very bad press here. But when you looked at the numbers, German Shepherds and Labradors were by far the most popular dogs. (Pure breds, I'm talking here, rather than mutts.)

These days, pit-bulls and pit-bull types are by far the most common dogs around. You just have to look at what is available at the SPCA and what is currently at the pound to see that.

I do tend to steer clear of un-accompanied pit-bulls and pit-bull types, because here in New Zealand, they are often owned by gangs and used as guard and intimidation dogs.

What concerns me generally about these breeds is that originally, they were bred for fighting and holding large animals and fearlessness was a desired trait that was bred for. Just as we have noted about corgis, with their breed tendancy to herd, i feel these dogs have a tendancy to fight and hold. And when they do bite, man, do they bite!

I still haven't entirely made up my mind about the adage that pit-bulls are <i>always</i> dangerous, as I haven't had enough personal experience with them. I have known a couple of Staffies, which are, I believe, pit-bull types, but they were owned by responsible people and I had no issues with them.

[Michael Romanos]

I steer Taylor clear of any bull type dogs apart from English and French Bull dogs. But i also keep Taylor away from other dog breeds with the potential to have an unrelenting aggressive behaviour. German Shepherds 'guarding' in their property or in their vehicles are very much to be avoided by the publc at large as well as by other dogs.
Taylor mixes up with many dogs off leash and on leash and the only problems have been Boxers (mainly because Taylor doesn't like them) and a couple of chocolate coloured Labs. The types of dogs as I described previously are generally not the kind of dogs that are freely running around in parks and at agility.

[thebluejackal]

First of all, there is NO "Pit Bull" breed. There are the American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. These dogs were made up of a cross between the Olde English Bulldog (meaning NOT the super brachycephalic breed that most people see, but its athletic predecessor) and terriers. Hence . . . Bull Terriers. And yes, the eggheaded breed is also a cousin of them, along with Boston Terriers, Great Danes, American Bulldogs, and others. "Pit Bull" is really more of a category.

Also, the APBT and AmStaff standards call for dogs who are 40-60 pounds, so these 80+ pound behemoths that people are breeding now are more than likely crossed with something larger, like Danes or Mastiffs.

My Corgi is more DA (dog aggressive) than the two APBTs I know well. Unfortunately, it's a breed trait for APBTs and AmStaffs to want to have it on with other dogs (the same with Shiba Inu, Akita Inu, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and others), so it's really to be expected of them. GOOD and KNOWLEDGEABLE Pit Bull owners know this and act accordingly with their dogs. HA or (human aggression) is never to be accepted and all dogs displaying it have historically been culled, but some dumb jerks are perpetuating the behavior and breeding it in in order to make a guard dog out of a dog that has NEVER been meant to guard or just plain to make their dogs mean for their own status gain. It's stupid.

It's funny, because my friend Stephanie has an APBT named Piper and she attends the training school where I just started teaching. I was talking to her at a distance with a decent grip on Hazel (PWC) because of HIS fear-based DA. I was NOT worried at ALL about Piper -- I know her well.

I also fostered an APBT for a time named Zolf. He played a couple of times with my dogs with NO incident, but I only allowed supervised playtime after I had known him for several weeks.

Here's a picture of Kaya my Shiba Inu/GSD mix holding Zolf the APBT down on the ground while Hazel looks on:



Kaya knocked him over several times and Hazel nipped at his heels constantly. Very, VERY tolerant and sweet dog.

Watch the behavior of any dogs you're around. If you see any aggressive red flags go up (teeth showing, barking, lunging, hackles raised, high, fast tail wags, lips pursed, etc) turn around and go the other way. It doesn't matter what breed it is, all dogs are capable of being DA and a large dog is always more capable of tearing up a smaller dog than vice versa.

Pardon me, I hang out with a lot of APBT people even though I don't have one myself. They're one of my favorite breeds aside from Corgis and Spitz-types.

[Michael Romanos]

American Pit Bull Terriers are one of four breeds of dogs banned in New Zealand which means that they can longer be imported or mated or registered with the NZ Kennel Club. That hasn't entirely stopped all the Pit Bill mixtures from springing up - they are often called Staffordshire Bull Terrier-crosses so that the Pit Bull content is 'hidden.'
Irrespective of what Clogs has said, the biggest by far breed of dog in NZ is the Labrador and the Labrador-cross.
Some people within the dog community feel that all breeds of dogs that are noted for locking their jaws on other dogs should be muzzled in public and at public places.
Generally speaking, Pit Bulls/American Staffordshire Terriers are a breed of dog to be feared by other less potentially aggressive dogs and less powerful fighting dogs.

[thebluejackal]

I find that interesting because some of the MOST dog aggressive dogs I have met at K9U have, in fact, been labradors. Labs tend to have exceedingly rude body language as well, which can tick off many other breeds and spark a fight.

So what dogs are on that list? I can think of several off the top of my head that tend to be a little more testy with other dogs, so many, in fact, that breed banning and other legislation still seems ridiculous to me. For example, regardless of size . . . Chihuahuas, Springer Spaniels, Cocker Spaniels, Shiba Inu, Kai Inu, Akita Inu, Tosa Inu, Doberman, Rottweilers, a vast amount of terriers, GSDs (Alsatians), Belgian Malinois, Belgian Tervuran, Great Danes, Greyhounds, a smattering of Mastiffs, APBTs, AmStaffs, Staffie Bulls, Bull Terriers, AmBulls, Pomeranians, Chow Chows . . . The list could go on for quite a while if I kept this up. Might as well keep ALL dogs muzzled!

APBTs have been freakishly misrepresented by the media over and over and over again, leading to these rather ludicrous bannings. They tend to be extremely friendly and outgoing dogs, especially with people, but the fear and sensationalism has built up to the point that if one trots up to someone seeking attention and wanting to give a kiss, it's suddenly written up as an "Attack." Yes, real attacks have occurred with abused, illbred, and/or mishandled dogs, but this occurs with any other breed. I've heard accounts of Labs, GSDs, JRTs, and even Pomeranians mauling people and children with and without fatalities, but these rarely ever make the news because it wasn't a "Pit Bull".

I personally think there's a huge lack of education out there, not to mention too many people with no dog sense owning these dogs. They're not very large (at least they're not SUPPOSED to be, meaning 40 - 60 pounds), but they are powerful and muscular. No, their jaws don't lock. This is a myth. They do have remarkable stamina and speed, something that is leading many sporting APBTs to beat many retrievers in field trials, plus that wonderful terrier tenacity. They don't back off a task easily which can be an awesome quality in dog training and sports, but it's also what leads many of them to finish a fight whether or not they started it.

Sorry, but this is an issue I get passionate over. I am a lover and advocate of all dogs and it really cheeses me when a breed becomes grossly misrepresented.


Also, did people expect to see a mauling when watching "Our Gang?" No? Well, isn't that interesting! Petey was a Pit Bull!

The APBT graced several WWII posters as a symbol of the United States as well . . .

It's amazing how a dog can go from the All American Dog to America's Canine Enemy #1.

[Michael Romanos]

I think there is an effort by some people who are indeed passionate about preserving all breeds of dogs no matter what they were bred for, what problems internationally have been encountered and the ease to turn certain breeds into dangerous weapons, to discredit every breed or place every breed in the same category.
Surely you can't class Cocker Spaniels , Chihuahuas, Pomeranians and the like in with the jaw locking, acutely strong, medium-large dog breeds that are well know as potential trouble makers throughout the world. Me and Taylor would rather encounter an aggressive Chihuahua or a Pom or a Cocker Spaniel (or a Corgi) than a Pit Bull.

[fogebotom]

Did you know though, that more bites overall are done by those small, little helpless dogs then the large PBT's, rotties and the like?? The thing is that no one reports getting bit by their pomeranian, cocker or what not.

In training, any breed regardless of size is to be respected and in turn, trained so that they are social and respectful of the human at the other end of the leash. I have more issues with antisocial, nasty, mean small dogs in my classes then anything else. Also issues with Labs, chows and beagles, I hate beagles-worst ones out there. People pamper, spoil and underestimate the intelligence of the pocket dogs and those dogs take advantage of it every chance they get.

Personally having the attitude that it's okay for a small dog to be aggressive is ridiculus. No dog in a public or private setting should show aggressive behavior, period. I for one have meet some of the nicest PBT's and love the breed. If we continue to outlaw or ban a breed, they just move on to another one.

It's all about the training not the breed, nothing more and nothing less.

Cindy and the big and small crew at Foggy Bottom

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

Some people within the dog community feel that all breeds of dogs that are noted for locking their jaws on other dogs should be muzzled in public and at public places.

I'm not quite sure if you meant this literally, but Pit Bulls do not "lock their jaws." No breed of dog is physically capable of "locking their jaws." That is an old wive's tale.

(And for the record, the ONLY breed I call a "Pit Bull" is the American Pit Bull Terrier, because that's what it USED to be short for, before all this media hype.)