My Puppy Just bite me really bad

[noonedoes]

Usually he's good and will nip at me when we are playing....but tonight was a different story. I was drying him off after a bath and gave him a peanut butter lolipop treat as a distraction. He was at the end and I tried to take the stick away when he growled and bite me really hard. He pierced the skin and drew some blood. So i grabbed the back of his neck and lifted him up, and yelped really loud. I then put my hand back near him (while holding him up like 2 inches of the ground) when he bite me again. He was also growling, so I just picked him up and gave him a time out in his crate.

He's still in the crate right now...but I was wondering how should I proceed? I was told by the breed that if he growled to lift him up and put him on the back to show that I was the dominate one.

This is not the first time he has done this behavior but tonight he was really bad. Sometimes when I try to take off his collar after a walk he would growl when I got close to his neck, and would try to bite but it's never gotten this serious.

Here is some more info about him...he just turned 11 weeks old. I had him since he was 8 weeks, he hasn't gotten his rabies shot (gets them in 3 weeks) and he starts puppy class at the end of this month.


I am open to any suggestion right now.

[Michael Romanos]

I do not recommend at all that you grab a Corgi by his/her neck and lift them up. I would definitely think my beautifully natured Corgi would bite me too if I tried that. Giving your pup a lollypop- stick gave the pup the impression the whole item was as precious as a bone. I would not want to rip a bone I gave my Pem away from him without careful planning and endeavour. Present your pup with an alternative. Don't forget he was already in a vunerable, strange maybe stressful situation - having a bath and maybe puting up with inexperienced hands and handling.
It seems you may have created a touching issue. You may have made his neck a no go place - some handlers/owners have angered Corgis in grabbing their feet or the rear part of their bodies - and they react to more touching or grabbing with anger having had bad experiences. You'll have to earn his trust again.

[MyPemCharlie]

I agree that lifting him up by the scruff of the neck, or alpha rolling him on his back to show dominance, is a very bad idea. You really should not have to go to such physical extremes to prove dominance over an 11 week old puppy.

It would be a good idea to consult with a behaviorist who can physically observe your puppy. He really should not be showing such aggression at this young age. I would suspect he may either have a genetic temperament problem passed along from his parents, or he was mishandled by the breeder, and/or not well socialized while at the breeder. If his breeder scruffed him and alpha rolled him a lot, then instructed you to do the same thing, I would worry that he has developed a fear aggression issue. Being taken from his littermates at 8 weeks also did not give him enough time to learn bite inhibition from his littermates.

Do not let him nip you even when you are playing. It sounds like he will be harder to break from nipping than most pups, but when he puts his teeth on you, even lightly, squeal "Ouch!", turn your back on him and ignore him for a few minutes. This is what his littermates would do to teach him he bit too hard.

I'm happy to hear you have him enrolled in puppy classes. The trainer should be able to help you with appropriate positive training methods to help build a solid bond with him. I would call a behaviorist before the end of the month and discuss his issues with biting. Meanwhile, treat him gently. No more scruffing...it's obviously not working for you or him. Don't do anything that would instigate a serious bite until you speak with someone who can observe his behavior.

[Jane Austen]

Look up the Nothing in Life is Free method. I think you may find it in your search by putting in NILIF. I would try this and also feed the puppy by hand. That will get him knowing that you are the source of all good things. Good Luck

[noonedoes]

I got the dog from a reputable show breeder, who is also a vet and I've meet the puppies's mom and there wasn't anything aggressive about her. I also took him back to the visit his siblings from the same litter and he's not the dominate one around them.

He's not aggressive at all, it's just when I try to take something from his mouth...like if he's chewing on a piece of paper and I don't want him to swallow it.

I do the yelping and ignoring him when we play and he accidentally bites me when he's chasing his toys...but I am looking on ways to make him stop growling when I am trying to remove something from his mouth.

[MyPemCharlie]

What you just described is resource guarding. Jane's suggestion to feed him by hand is a good idea, so that he knows where his food is coming from. Also teach him "Trade". Get a toy and a treat, (or two toys). Give him the toy, but hang on to one end. Then wave the treat (or better toy) in front of him and say "Trade". (The treat or other toy needs to be more tempting than the original toy.) He should let go. You give him the treat (or better toy) and say "Good Trade!" You usually want to do at least 3 repetitions of any training so they start to put the word and action into memory. "Trade" is a good foundation for "Drop It" later on when you may be at a bit of a distance and don't have something immediately available to trade.

Also put his toys away and give them to him when you want him to play and take them away when you're finished playing. This will also reinforce to him that you own everything and share with him when you choose.

The NILIF (nothing in life is free) is also a good idea for a resource guarder. "NILIF" will pull up some good articles on an internet search. It includes several techniques, which when used together, will help your pup see you as the leader.

[fogebotom]

What I see is that he has your number and dials it any time he wants to keep the upper hand.

The NILIF might be a little extreme at this time and you also might be pushing him a little too much, expecting too much at this age. There is a chance he's entering a fear period, so you have to be very careful about how you discipline him as well as what situations you put him in.

Is there a reason that during the bath and drying he needed the distraction of the treat? I have never offered a treat during this exercise. I might offer a small training treat with a very happy praise word, but that's it. That's actually all I do - small treat, praise and move on.

Also, if he bite you once, why would you offer your hand when he is in panic to let him bite you again? Of course he was going to do it. If I have several pups who are in a little bit of sqirmish, I might pick on up off his front feet by his scruff and a little shake to say knock it off, placing them in another area. Never use belly rolls to repremand. Puppies need to be comfortable on their back, not stressed that something is wrong.

I would start back at foundation work. When taking something from your puppy offer something of greater or equal value, don't just take it away. Later on as the dog matures, you can easily take something away if this is followed. Also while your puppy is eating, sit next to them. If the breeder did their ground work, you should be able to stick your hand out and take the bowl of food away then return it. If not, the puppy growls or makes a grumpy move towards you, then in a firm voice, say NO, mine and take the bowl away and stand up. Once the puppy settles down, then offer the bowl again, but this time make the puppy sit and stay quietly until the bowl is at the ground. All my dogs learn over a period of time, but usually by the time they head to their new homes at 10 weeks, that I am the giver and taker. They wait patiently for their food, no barging, no lunging, etc.

Also, I might have missed this-a cardigan or pembroke puppy?

[MattC]

We (my wife and I) were told by the breeder that we should roll our puppy on his back everyday so he knows his role in the family. It was also told to us by our trainer (not Nick's trainer) that possesion is very important to puppies if they feel that what they have is theirs they will become aggressive. We did many excercises of giving Nick raw hide and taken it away. Also playing with his food while he is eating. Basically we forced ourselves to be involved in everything he does so he will have an understanding of our role in his life. Once we set the ground rules. He started behaving. Another exercise that was helpful was holding his treat and as he approached our fingers, upon first sensation of nibble on skin we would scream as if he really hurt us. I hope this is helpful. Sounds like you got yourself a handful! A bloody handful!

[MyPemCharlie]

Originally Posted by MattC

We (my wife and I) were told by the breeder that we should roll our puppy on his back everyday so he knows his role in the family.

There is a distinction between gently rolling a puppy over on its back while the puppy is relaxed, trusting and happy, and an Alpha Roll where you are forcing the puppy over as a correction or punishment when the puppy is already tense, upset, or fearful.

The most prone and defenseless position for a dog is "belly up". It does show submissive behavior and an agreement from the dog that you are the leader. I would agree that the positive rolling of a relaxed puppy can help build trust and pack status. The forced alpha roll creates more fear and can destroy trust.

When Charlie was young I rubbed his belly until he rolled and went belly up on his own. It was his way of saying, "I submit and trust you as leader. Now rub my belly!"

[fogebotom]

I know a few on the list don't subscribe to it, but a recent article in the Whole Dog Journal was very interesting. It was all about a dog who willing and happily does a task vs a dog who submitts and does it out of fear. I will try to dig it up.

Putting the fear of God, so to speak in a dog in order to have it submitt or do a task is a great way of breaking a bond, rather then building it. Even the Monks of New Skete admit that publishing their first draft of their book was wrong. They demonstrated and referred to the submission and alpha roll needed to be done by an experienced trainer and handler and with specific dogs only-not every new puppy and not by new dog owners. There is a very thin line you can cross when doing it wrong.

You want a partner, not just a dog.

[noonedoes]

I'll stop doing the neck grabbing and do the trade thing...and I give treats while bathing to try to calm him down. He doesn't like taking baths much, well this is only his third time. I wouldn't have gave him a bath but he decided to roll around after he pooped.

Oh yeah, he's a Red White Pem puppy.


Thanks for all the advice