First Dog Show

[nrhareiner]

Well I want to my first AKC dog show today with my Pem puppy. She took best of breed Puppy that was the best part of the day. I will say that this is likely my first and last dog show. I have been showing animals for more then a dacade and this was the worst run show I have ever been too and 98% of the people there where just rude. They acted like my questions where irritating them and I should just go away. If this is the way AKC runs their shows it is no wonder there are less and less poeple showing.

Hope anyone ealse that shows has had a better experiance then what I had today.

Heidi

[Michael Romanos]

Heidi _ I am Terribly sad that you found the whole experience like living through torture. I could say a lot of things about dog conformation shows and the differences between breed specific handlers and owners. Corgis are one of the breeds where the majority of owners/handlers who are into showing their dogs, are small minded people.
Believe me, there is a huge difference between conformation showing as a sport and a means of socialising and being involved with other sports like agility, tracking, trialling, herding. I am glad that I am not currently showing and am embracing agility. My Pem, Taylor just loves agility and all the socialising and mixing that occurs. Showing is cut-throat and egotistical. There are always exceptions among the handlers, owners and breeders but your experiences are typical of what the situation is like in NZ. Perhaps you have an outcross pup and you won because the judge was one of those who doesn't look to see if they know the handler in the ring. Whatever, it is easy to rattle the shallowness that exists.
Dress up, become part of the 'system, and share the enjoyment of success with yourself and your family members or branch out and try other more outwardly and inwardly rewarding pursuits with your Corgi. Conformation showing is important for breed standards to be maintained, but it can easily be distasteful.

[nrhareiner]

You know I could easaly handle the exibitors/handlers being rude but the people running the show where just as bad. The comunication was non existant and when I ask questions about what to do and where to go it was like I was asking if I could take their first born and toss it off a cliff or something. I had marked the entry form that this was my first show. When I got the show bill they sent info for a class that I could go and they would give us info about showing and all. Well it was supost to start 1/2 hour before my class so I was not sure if I could make that or not. I did enquier and they acted like they knew nothing about it and once they figured it out they through the book at me and then I had to ask again where it was going to be. Well I never did find it. Then they gave me incorrect info as to where to go for the herding puppy group so I missed that. That is what really ticked me off.

I am more into performance events and I will end up doing them with both of my pups but my Pem is a show quality pup and both parents are champions so I was really looking forward to doing this. Well not so much any more. If this is the way they do things they will never grow. You grow an association from the grass roots and that means people like myself getting into showing.

Heidi

[Michael Romanos]

It is called 'self importance.' These show people and the show officials are a riot of self importance. It is not their job to be helpful, considerate and patient.

[nrhareiner]

I believe it is. If they are being paid to run these shows their job should be to help the people paying that bill. With out us they would be out of a job. I have been showing for over a decade in all levals from local schooling open shows to reginal national leval and this was truely the worst run show I have ever seen.

You would think they would want to help and get more people involved as that means more money for them. I am also not sure why they need an outside company to put on and run the shows. There is no reason why the affiliate club can not do that.

Heidi

[Michael Romanos]

In NZ. only the judges get paid. Everyone else is a volunteer. Doesn't mean though that one cannot be professional.
Just thinking, you have to get familiar with the 'set-up' of a show and the general way things are run. It is a bit of a learning curve for beginners. So give it another try or two, be more assertive and alert, and things will fall into place better than your introduction to shows did. Don't expect the red carpet treatment - though you and all starter-uppers deserve it.

[Samson]

Samson and I were in our first show on May 12 (his six month birthday). Our trainers are professional handlers (25 years with Dobermans, Irish Wolfounds, and German Pinschers) warned us of the pitfalls (what to expect, handler rudeness, etc.) before we ever started confirmation classes. One thing I learned quickly is that confirmation is a competitive "sport." Emphasis really is on competitive. There is a lot of money at stake as there are professional handlers who do this for a living, not to mention those who have dogs with titles trying to earn an invitation, and the potential money in breeding (the purpose for which you show a dog) to try to get the best dog that meets the breed standard (many people forget that the breed standard also includes temperment). As such, handlers/owners must win.

This may be unfortunate, but it's really no different than any other professional sport. When competitive people are involved they will do anything they can to get a leg up. Intimidate, crowd your dog out in front of the judge, tell you your dog isn't good enough even though you know for a darn fact the dog is good enough.

We have gotten involved in the North Texas Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club, and they have been awesome. If you plan to show, the best thing next to training is your local club. Our club is fantastic, helpful, and encouraging. Many people went out of their way in our first show to help us and it was wonderful!!! So, though we had been warned, we did not experience all of the negatives on our first show. We will be at Lake Charles, LA next week for our second show and look very forward to the event.

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by nrhareiner

I believe it is. If they are being paid to run these shows their job should be to help the people paying that bill.

Are you talking about the club members? If so they are NOT being paid. It's all volunteer work. And yes, some clubs have friendlier people than others.

The judges are paid to come judge and the club or clubs in the cluster hire the superindentent to set up the show and collect the results. They are not the ones running the show. The host club is the one running the show.

I am also not sure why they need an outside company to put on and run the shows. There is no reason why the affiliate club can not do that.

If you mean the superindentent, the superindentents sends out the preimums to announce the show, recive the entry forms, collect the money for entries (which they turn over to the club), print the armbands and catalogs and set up the rings. They also collect the results (wins) of the show and post them on line, and get them turned into the AKC.

My husband has been a show secetary for a specialty show. It involves quite a bit of time and it is much easier for a club to hire someone as a superindentent or show secetary than to try to do this themselves. They would spend more in time and money trying to it themselves, and that's IF they have someone with the time and know how to do entry forms and catalogs, etc.

Go to another show put on by another club. Don't judge all clubs and shows by one experience.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Samson

One thing I learned quickly is that confirmation is a competitive "sport." Emphasis really is on competitive. There is a lot of money at stake as there are professional handlers who do this for a living, not to mention those who have dogs with titles trying to earn an invitation, and the potential money in breeding (the purpose for which you show a dog) to try to get the best dog that meets the breed standard (many people forget that the breed standard also includes temperment). As such, handlers/owners must win.

I take execption to your comment about the purpose for which you show a dog. The potential money in breeding is NOT why we show dogs. A reputable breeder is very lucky if he/she breaks even on a litter. Most likely a breeder loses moeny on a litter. We do not breed to make money.

Most of us show because we enjoy it. We breed because we enjoy the challenge of trying to "create" the perfect dog of whatever breed we've chosen. And showing that dog to a Ch. is how we "prove" we've bred a dog close to the standard.

Most of us do not show because we think there's money at the end somewhere. We want to win because we think we've got the best dog in the ring.

Intimidate, crowd your dog out in front of the judge, tell you your dog isn't good enough even though you know for a darn fact the dog is good enough.

And not all of us do that. There are those that do yes, and you learn quickly who are the poor sports. However, there are many more who are nicer in the ring and play fair.

We have gotten involved in the North Texas Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club, and they have been awesome. If you plan to show, the best thing next to training is your local club. Our club is fantastic, helpful, and encouraging.

Joining a club is good advice. Not all areas have regional or specialty clubs (meaning for one breed only) available. But most areas have all breed clubs and you can benifit from joining one of those too. You can get help from people in other breeds too.

Peggy

[Samson]

Great, I appreciate your exception to my statements. I did not say the money was all about breeding (though that is the purpose for showing a dog - to get the best dog possible according to the breed standard, of which we will never get the absolute perfect dog). But there are breeders out there making a lot of money at the same time, and there are other breeders not making much money at all. It all depends on a lot factors. My friends who breed champion dogs get a minimum of $2,000 a dog (well over the $300-$500for an average family companion). With an average litter of six, that adds up pretty quickly, and the expense is 10% - 15% of the cost.

Second, I'm not talking directly about those who put on the show, but the professional handlers (one handler told me they get $300 every time they enter the ring and sometimes make as much as $5000 or more per weekend). This is how they make their living. To be honest, most people cannot or simply will not have a quality breeding program if they continually take a loss. Granted there is a great expense with a quality/responsible breeding program but there is money involved, and people are making money responsibly.

Finally, I did not say that everyone intimidates, etc. in the show ring or at a show, but certainly those folks are out there and the person who wrote initially certainly experienced them if you read closely. I think your sportsmanship is awesome!!!! But that is not everyone. I have heard horror stories of people across the country, and I have heard wonderful stories.

[glencorgi]

It is unfortunate you had a bad experience with your first AKC conformation show. Had you done any conformation handling classes prior? What tips and/or pointers did your pup's breeder offer? With just a little bit of preparatory insight shared with you, things might have gone more smoothly for you. There might not have been as many mis-perceptions and misconceptions on your part.

There are some shows which are better organized and run more smoothly than others. All the major work is done by the kennel club members and is volunteer. It is not feasible or practical for an all-breed club to do ALL the work themselves and they do hire superintendents to send out premium lists (your entry form), collect the entries, schedule the order that the breeds are judged, send you a confirmation and a judging program (that isn't a "bill"). Most set up the rings, some of their employees help with clean up after the dogs - they do a ton of work. I can tell the difference between in the overall "quality" of a show between the three major superintendents in my area though. One of them stands out far superior than the other two. Kennel club members do the day of the show running, hire judges (the only "paid" employees on the day besides those from the superintendent). It is a TON of work and yes there are some clubs that are more exhibitor friendly than others, but for the most part in my experience, club members putting on the show are usually willing to be as helpful as possible.

Give it another shot with another club and hopefully your experience will be much different. As Michael said, it is important to get a feel for how things are run. It is also helpful to arrive early and get a feel for the lay of the show as each show site is different.

Debbie

[Peggy]

Originally Posted by Samson

Great, I appreciate your exception to my statements.

Doesn't sound like it.

I did not say the money was all about breeding (though that is the purpose for showing a dog - to get the best dog possible according to the breed standard, of which we will never get the absolute perfect dog).

We breed to get the best possible dog. We show to see how our breeding program is going. How we measure up.

How can showing get you the best possible dog?

You are right we will never get the absolute perfect dog. Mother Nature sees to that.

Q