Corgi Forums

Peggy · **About that tail -** 12-21-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

My male Cardigan has an upright tail with a slight curve to it, now, I've heard others say "oh you should train him to keep his tail down". Now, I'm not the best at training, and I wonder what are people referring to when they say train him in this manner???

I get the stand (pose for ring), but, carry his tail different... This trait is occasionally associated with juvenile dogs and can diminish with age. Any thoughts out there?

Oh, and judges don't always seem to mind.

I moved this since it's not really an article, but a topic for conversation. I hope you don't mind.

Your dog has a gay tail. A gay tail is a fault in the Cardigan standard. Ideally they should carry the tail out behind them like a fox brush or maybe slightly up. But not up over his back or with straight up.

tailsbad
tails

It can be associated with juvenile dogs but if people are commenting on it I'd bet it's just the way he is.

And no not all judges mind, some will. If your dog has other good traits and doesn't carry it curled over his back I'd not worry about it. (Been there, done that, was told to leave his tail alone and concentrate on his good ponts.)

Peggy

jakort1 · **About that tail -** 12-22-2007, 07:25 AM

Thanks for moving this! I wrote it half asleep last night (winter makes me tired, especially after the evening walk).

Will's tail is more of an annoyance than anything else, I just don't understand why I've been told to train him to carry it, the tail, low without any description of how this is done... If his tail is at fault training it to stay down seems like that would be the same as trimming a fluff.

In the ring he carries the tail high only when he initially begins and then it's carried normally. So, part of it is excitement.

This is all out of curiosity, I mean no insult against people that trim their dogs or train the dog to keep the tail low.
John

glencorgi · 12-22-2007, 09:02 AM

You might be talking about two separate issues tail carriage, which can be behavioral and tail set which can be a structural fault. IF his tail set is high (a structural fault) then the more prone they are to carry their tail high. I have known some Cardigans with correct tail sets that still tended to carry their tails high. They were trained to carry them correctly for the ring. HOW? One trick I know I'll not pass on because I think it kind of cruel. How I was told to work with one happy tailed boy I had was; when you are out working with him on the leash, have a long stick or yard stick with you and when the tail comes up touch the tail giving a correction word. Takes time and practice and you can move away from having to have the physical "enforcer". Clicker training would also be a good way to go.

You have to remember there are no "perfect" dogs in the show ring and if he has numerous virtues that outweigh the tail fault, then he would be worthy of a championship. The tail will hurt you with a lot of judges.

Debbie

jakort1 · 12-22-2007, 11:49 AM

Thanks for the info. My plan for Willy is to show him a couple of more times, but, I want to get together with his breeder in the spring. She resides up in Maine, but, she usually shows in RI in April. Since she's been wanting to see him I'll enter this show and then get her appraisal. In a way, I'd like to use him for breeding because he does have many admirable qualities, but on the other hand getting him neutered and removing him from conformation doesn't bother me. I would then do agility (which I was going to do anyway).

Cheers,
John

Michael Romanos · 12-22-2007, 11:46 PM

I would think that a judge who knows Corgis, would penalise - maybe beyond the degree of fault - a Cardi with a continuous proud tail in the show ring.

Vannette · 12-23-2007, 01:00 AM

I guess it's a good thing I'm not the judge...I like his tail up. But then I don't know any better and my opinion doesn't count. LOL

glencorgi · 01-12-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vannette

I guess it's a good thing I'm not the judge...I like his tail up. But then I don't know any better and my opinion doesn't count. LOL

The tail up can be due to structural faults. It is incorrect carriage. Always keep in mind, form follows function. If the tail carried up is due to structural issues, then the dog wouldn't be able to function in its original purpose.

Debbie

jakort1 · 01-16-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glencorgi

The tail up can be due to structural faults. It is incorrect carriage. Always keep in mind, form follows function. If the tail carried up is due to structural issues, then the dog wouldn't be able to function in its original purpose.

Debbie

Form follows function...not exactly the lesson taught in genetics. Phenotype follows genotype (and sometimes unexpected developmental issues). Who says that the dog could not function in it's original purpose??? That would be a hypothesis that could not be tested.
John

glencorgi · 01-16-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakort1

Form follows function...not exactly the lesson taught in genetics. Phenotype follows genotype (and sometimes unexpected developmental issues). Who says that the dog could not function in it's original purpose??? That would be a hypothesis that could not be tested.
John

Actually it is, and has been tested, if you think about it. While early dog people may not have known about genotype, they did select for phenotype (form) and chose for the one which was able to optimally perform the task (function) they needed. Genotype, we can never see 100% what is all rolled up in that. Now this is all theoretical, and not speaking of anyone's dog specifically, well maybe drawing on some of my own. In the case of a high tail set, there more often than not, are rear structural issues as well. If a dog has a weak rear(form), then it is not going to have proper drive for it efficiently perform a day's work - function.

Debbie

MyPemCharlie · 01-17-2008, 07:58 AM

Just out of general curiosity, I'd like to see a picture of Will when he is carrying his tail down. I'm certainly no expert, but it's hard to compare your photo with his tail up with the link Peggy posted of pictures of "correct" tails.

jakort1 · 01-17-2008, 08:27 AM

I'll see if I can put in a photo with the tail down. I should have had the obedience instructor take photos of him while we were working on agility the other evening. When we show in April I plan on having his breeder give an evaluation.
He's a fantastic companion no matter the tail he carries...

Michael Romanos · 01-18-2008, 01:30 AM

A tail carried incorrectly because of a structual fault is not going to assist the dog to perform to their ultimate the kinds of tasks that they were bred for nor other tasks (sports) that have some association with their breeding tasks, eg agility.

jakort1 · 01-18-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Romanos

A tail carried incorrectly because of a structual fault is not going to assist the dog to perform to their ultimate the kinds of tasks that they were bred for nor other tasks (sports) that have some association with their breeding tasks, eg agility.

I'm not certain I quite comprehend what you are saying, however, if you think Will is unable to carry out agility or herding...you've never seen Will move.

I should mentio

Corgi Forums

About that tail